Kyle Pitts is AJ Green as a tight end.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-11-2021, 05:00 PM)Joelist Wrote: If you take Pitts without fixing the OL so the Tackles can play on islands it will be a bit pointless, as P{its will be staying in to help the RT most downs.

Right. Think we are assuming bengals try to upgrade there line through FA. Otherwise it’s pretty tough to justify Pitts if Sewell is on the board or it’s an absolute need because FA didn’t work

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 05:30 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Right. Think we are assuming bengals try to upgrade there line through FA. Otherwise it’s pretty tough to justify Pitts if Sewell is on the board or it’s an absolute need because FA didn’t work

You could probably be ok with taking OL in Rds 2 and 3 if you don't upgrade in FA or take in Rd 1, but people will be angry.
Also, if you do that, you'd have to wait until Day 3 to take defense, which will also make fans unhappy lol.

Bottom line - Bengals need to be active in FA to justify taking a TE or WR in Rd 1.

[t3r3e3]

(02-11-2021, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: People were against Jefferson because Jefferson played the slot and Bengals already had Boyd there.
As for Pitts's speed, I think he runs in the 4.5's, which is good for a TE.

4.5’s is akin to 90th percentile for TE’s. Only true freaks like Vernon Davis, Jared Cook, or converted WR’s (Waller) get below 4.5. If Pitts runs 4.5 or better with his excellent tape he deserves to be considered, especially if Sewell is gone. Personally, I’d rather have Pitts than any of the WR’s as the TE pool is not as deep as WR.

[Murdock2420]

(02-11-2021, 12:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Anyone who doesn't want Kyle Pitts either:
1) Undervalues his abilities
2) Thinks Bengals have good TEs now or optimism they'll get better
3) Don't think the Bengals will be able to incorporate TE well enough into the passing game

Or wants them to draft offensive line help since Pitts is useless if Burrow is under siege like he was last year.

Chase, Pitts, etc, etc, etc... weapons are useless if your QB is running for his life or laying flat on his back.

Did you forget the Super Bowl game already or just not watch? The best offense in the league was shut down due to a crap O-line and an aggressive D. 

In this division, we have 6 games against teams that love to blitz, without an O-line... yeah... not a good idea.

Now, if the FA period ends and they have a new tackle and a new guard that are legit players and upgrades... sure go get a new toy, but if they don't have two new starters on O-line before the draft, then O-line is the only acceptable pick.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 07:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Or wants them to draft offensive line help since Pitts is useless if Burrow is under siege like he was last year.

Chase, Pitts, etc, etc, etc... weapons are useless if your QB is running for his life or laying flat on his back.

Did you forget the Super Bowl game already or just not watch? The best offense in the league was shut down due to a crap O-line and an aggressive D. 

In this division, we have 6 games against teams that love to blitz, without an O-line... yeah... not a good idea.

The Bengals would have to address OL in FA and/or Day 2 of the draft to justify taking Pitts.
Wanting Pitts vs taking someone else instead of him at 5 because of need are different things though.

Also, I don't understand why you made an assumption that I don't know the Bengals need upgrades at OL or that I "must have forgotten the Super Bowl or didn't watch." You've seen enough of my posts on this board to know how I feel about OL, so the fact that you think I don't understand the OL need is laughable, frankly.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 07:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Now, if the FA period ends and they have a new tackle and a new guard that are legit players and upgrades... sure go get a new toy, but if they don't have two new starters on O-line before the draft, then O-line is the only acceptable pick.

I disagree.
If the Bengals get an OT in FA, they don't need to reach for a Guard at 5.
They can get a more than capable Guard in Rds 2-3.
Heck, they should be able to get a solid-or-better RT in Rd 2.
It's not Pick 5 or bust for OL in this draft class. There's a lot of talent on Day 2 of the draft.

Would the following scenario not be ok?
1) Pitts
2) Eichenberg, OT Notre Dame (Or Cosmi, Leatherwood, or Jenkins)
3) Duane Brown, OG Alabama

[Murdock2420]

(02-11-2021, 07:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I disagree.
If the Bengals get an OT in FA, they don't need to reach for a Guard at 5.
They can get a more than capable Guard in Rds 2-3.
Heck, they should be able to get a solid-or-better RT in Rd 2.
It's not Pick 5 or bust for OL in this draft class. There's a lot of talent on Day 2 of the draft.

Would the following scenario not be ok?
1) Pitts
2) Eichenberg, OT Notre Dame (Or Cosmi, Leatherwood, or Jenkins)
3) Duane Brown, OG Alabama

We had a round 4 pick responsible for Burrow's knee injury.

If they get Moton from Carolina, and then Sewell isn't available, then you take Slater and plug him in at G or Darrisaw and move Williams to guard.

I can not stress this enough... weapons are useless when your QB is hurt, sacked, running for his life, etc...

There is "generational" guys at WR, TE, every single year coming out they say. Gronk - 2nd rounder, Kelce - 3rd rounder, Kyle Rudolph - 2nd Rounder. 

I'll gamble on Tre McKitty out of Georiga in a later round to take Sewell, Slater or Darrisaw in round one and keep the QB upright.

[BFritz21]

I'd love Pitts because he's an amazing weapon and would be Burrow's best friend, but we'd need to be active in free agency to improve the line and, even if people around the organization say we will be, with the history of our franchise, I'm not buying it until I see it.

Pitts would definitely be amazing and offer us another dimension because, with how good Mixon is, backers and safeties would need to decide to keep an eye on Pitts before committing to the run and have one or two less defenders to stop Mixon or let Mixon hammer them for five or six yards a carry.

[Murdock2420]

(02-11-2021, 07:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals would have to address OL in FA and/or Day 2 of the draft to justify taking Pitts.
Wanting Pitts vs taking someone else instead of him at 5 because of need are different things though.

Also, I don't understand why you made an assumption that I don't know the Bengals need upgrades at OL or that I "must have forgotten the Super Bowl or didn't watch." You've seen enough of my posts on this board to know how I feel about OL, so the fact that you think I don't understand the OL need is laughable, frankly.

Cause your list of reasons for not taking Pitts didn't include the fact that improving the O-line is the single most important thing for this team to do... more important then re-signing Lawson or WJII, more important then adding WR's or TE's or anything... the O-line is the issue.

If Burrow stays upright he has Higgins and Boyd to throw to, and Tate will be back and is well liked around here and C.J. Uzomah isn't terrible.

Here is how I view it. Which is a bigger upgrade.

Pitts over Uzomah

Slater over Michael "I got my QB killed" Jordan

Sewell over Bobby Hart

That is how you need to look at it and in that situation, Pitts is easy to overlook.

The only way I consider Pitts or Chase at pick 5 is if the O-line looks like this pre-draft. Williams, Thuney, Hopkins, Spain, Moton. If you have those 5 guys or something extremely close to those 5 in talent, sure... go get whatever at 5.

[masonbengals fan]

(02-11-2021, 07:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Or wants them to draft offensive line help since Pitts is useless if Burrow is under siege like he was last year.

Chase, Pitts, etc, etc, etc... weapons are useless if your QB is running for his life or laying flat on his back.

Did you forget the Super Bowl game already or just not watch? The best offense in the league was shut down due to a crap O-line and an aggressive D. 

In this division, we have 6 games against teams that love to blitz, without an O-line... yeah... not a good idea.

Now, if the FA period ends and they have a new tackle and a new guard that are legit players and upgrades... sure go get a new toy, but if they don't have two new starters on O-line before the draft, then O-line is the only acceptable pick.

 I couldn't have said it any better. 

[pulses]

(02-11-2021, 04:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If I recall correctly, CJ ran a modest 4.58.  If Pitts runs 4.59 or less, at his height and weight, he will be a beast.  He is a hybrid TE/WR.  I would hope the coaching staff could creatively use Pitts if he is drafted by the Bengals.  Pitts, Higgins, Boyd, and maybe a FA signing like Godwin would be killer.

Godwin is wishful thinking but Josh Reynolds is more realistiic but I agree it would be some nice weapons. I think we should take Pitts at 5 also.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 07:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Cause your list of reasons for not taking Pitts didn't include the fact that improving the O-line is the single most important thing for this team to do... more important then re-signing Lawson or WJII, more important then adding WR's or TE's or anything... the O-line is the issue.

If Burrow stays upright he has Higgins and Boyd to throw to, and Tate will be back and is well liked around here and C.J. Uzomah isn't terrible.

Here is how I view it. Which is a bigger upgrade.

Pitts over Uzomah

Slater over Michael "I got my QB killed" Jordan

Sewell over Bobby Hart

That is how you need to look at it and in that situation, Pitts is easy to overlook.

The only way I consider Pitts or Chase at pick 5 is if the O-line looks like this pre-draft. Williams, Thuney, Hopkins, Spain, Moton. If you have those 5 guys or something extremely close to those 5 in talent, sure... go get whatever at 5.

I'm not taking Slater at 5 to play OG. Quinton Nelson is the highest OG pick (that I can remember anyway) and he was taken 6th. And Nelson is a better, safer prospect than Slater.
If you're taking Slater at 5, you're taking him with intent to play OT.

As for replacing Hart, he's a 7th rounder. He's done well for a 7th rounder, but I really think the Bengals can find a proper RT in Rd 2 or even early Rd 3. If I'm taking an OT at 5, it would be with the intent to play that guy at LT and shift Jonah Williams to LG or RT.

As for Uzomah, dude is also not good.
His highest PFF score in any season is 68.1, but his highest receiving score is 63.3.
He's basically the same caliber of a TE as Bobby Hart is at OT.


I'm totally down for taking Sewell because he's considered a generational talent, but Pitts is also considered a generational talent at TE, and would be a huge upgrade over Uzomah and Sample.
If OT isn't addressed in FA like we've heard rumors of and Sewell does end up being there, I think he's worth taking over Pitts.
But if Sewell isn't there and/or OT has already been addressed in FA, Pitts is my target. I'll go get OL in Rds 2 and/or 3.

[pulses]

(02-11-2021, 07:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not taking Slater at 5 to play OG. Quinton Nelson is the highest OG pick (that I can remember anyway) and he was taken 6th. And Nelson is a better, safer prospect than Slater.
If you're taking Slater at 5, you're taking him with intent to play OT.

As for replacing Hart, he's a 7th rounder. He's done well for a 7th rounder, but I really think the Bengals can find a proper RT in Rd 2 or even early Rd 3. If I'm taking an OT at 5, it would be with the intent to play that guy at LT and shift Jonah Williams to LG or RT.

As for Uzomah, dude is also not good.
His highest PFF score in any season is 68.1, but his highest receiving score is 63.3.
He's basically the same caliber of a TE as Bobby Hart is at OT.


I'm totally down for taking Sewell because he's considered a generational talent, but Pitts is also considered a generational talent at TE, and would be a huge upgrade over Uzomah and Sample.
If OT isn't addressed in FA like we've heard rumors of and Sewell does end up being there, I think he's worth taking over Pitts.
But if Sewell isn't there and/or OT has already been addressed in FA, Pitts is my target. I'll go get OL in Rds 2 and/or 3.

Pitts in round 1

Teven Jenkins / Jaylen Mayfield / Trey Smith  Round 2

Spencer Brown / Dillon Radunz / Ben Cleveland   Round 3

[Murdock2420]

(02-11-2021, 07:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm totally down for taking Sewell because he's considered a generational talent, but Pitts is also considered a generational talent at TE, and would be a huge upgrade over Uzomah and Sample.
If OT isn't addressed in FA like we've heard rumors of and Sewell does end up being there, I think he's worth taking over Pitts.
But if Sewell isn't there and/or OT has already been addressed in FA, Pitts is my target. I'll go get OL in Rds 2 and/or 3.

In that situation, you trade down since their will be QBs available and pick up an extra 2nd round pick.

Then you take Christian Darrisaw or Slater to play T and use the extra 2nd rounder to get a weapon.

Like I showed you above, actual generational talents at TE, were all 2nd and 3rd round guys.

1st round TE's lately:

2020 - none
2019- Noah Fant (not really generational, but good), T.J. Hockenson (who was bad year one, but came on this year strong)
2018 - Hayden Hurst, who has already been traded,
2017 - O.J. Howard (2nd on the depth behind Brate still), Evan Engram (Stone hands Engram)
2016 - none
2015 - none
2014 - Eric Ebron (nothing special)
2013 - Mr Glass Tyler Eifert

2nd or 3rd Round TE's

2020 - Cole Kmet 
2019 - Irv Smith Jr (Very solid above average TE), Dawson Knox (Important weapon in Buffalo's offense)
2018 - Mike Gesicki (monster TE who killed us), Dallas Goedert (Who is replacing Zach Ertz and has great numbers)
2017 - Gerald Everett
2016 - Hunter Henry (stud), Austin Hooper (2 time Pro-Bowler)
2015 - Tyler Kroft and a few like him... not a deep class
2014 - Richard Rodgers and a lot of guys who are retired. 
2013 - Zach Ertz (Pro Bowler), Travis Kelce (Pro Bowler), Jordan Reed (Pro Bowler)


I'm just not seeing anything in recent years that justifies wasting a top 5 pick on a TE. If you move back and get him at 13 or 14 and get a bunch of other picks, I might be more on-board but look at the list of first round TE's and tell me which of them would be good value at pick 5? And several of them had the same hype as Pitts. Every year the scouts call this QB or this WR or this TE "generational" and honestly, how often do they really prove to be that?

Example, Eifert was "generational" when we took him, and... injured and unavailable. Meanwhile, the guys after him, Ertz and Kelce are in fact the guys changing the TE position.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-11-2021, 07:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I disagree.
If the Bengals get an OT in FA, they don't need to reach for a Guard at 5.
They can get a more than capable Guard in Rds 2-3.
Heck, they should be able to get a solid-or-better RT in Rd 2.
It's not Pick 5 or bust for OL in this draft class. There's a lot of talent on Day 2 of the draft.

Would the following scenario not be ok?
1) Pitts
2) Eichenberg, OT Notre Dame (Or Cosmi, Leatherwood, or Jenkins)
3) Duane Brown, OG Alabama

I will be happy if they take Sewell, but something like this would be just fine as well. Sewell,Chase,or Pitts at #5 is acceptable. If they dont go that route, they should probably trade back.

[NATI BENGALS]

A lot of you must have changed the channel when we were on defense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-12-2021, 09:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: A lot of you must have changed the channel when we were on defense.

Nah. We just don’t expect the defense to be fixed with the #5 pick, and the BPA is almost assuredly going to be offense.

[CoachGeorge]

From Walter football.com:

Some team sources feel Pitts is the second-best player in the 2021 NFL Draft and the rarest prospect after Trevor Lawrence. Some teams think Pitts could move to wide receiver and be a poor man's Calvin Johnson. Other teams think he can't play receiver, but is a generational tight end prospect who could be similar to Travis Kelce or Tony Gonzalez in the NFL.

Pitts was dominant in 2020, showing superb speed, hands, leaping ability, route-running, natural receiving ability, and dynamic mismatch potential for the NFL. Every opponent was incapable of covering Pitts, including future early-rounders in the Alabama and Georgia secondary. He missed a few games with a concussion, but SEC defenses had no answer for him and he destroyed man coverage from defensive backs all season.

Further point:

Some team sources say that Pitts is the best receiving weapon in the draft and is a more dynamic mismatch weapon than Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith

https://walterfootball.com/draft2021TE.php

Just months ago I felt we could trade down and grab Pitts and get further draft capital. Now, I believe so much in Pitts that I think he is gone by pick #5.

And yes, we can upgrade the O-line via free agency (two starters) and a day one starter with the second round pick.

[Nicomo Cosca]

If Sewell is gone I’m taking Pitts and not thinking twice about it. Upgrade the OL in FA and round 2.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2021, 08:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: In that situation, you trade down since their will be QBs available and pick up an extra 2nd round pick.

Then you take Christian Darrisaw or Slater to play T and use the extra 2nd rounder to get a weapon.

Like I showed you above, actual generational talents at TE, were all 2nd and 3rd round guys.

1st round TE's lately:

2020 - none
2019- Noah Fant (not really generational, but good), T.J. Hockenson (who was bad year one, but came on this year strong)
2018 - Hayden Hurst, who has already been traded,
2017 - O.J. Howard (2nd on the depth behind Brate still), Evan Engram (Stone hands Engram)
2016 - none
2015 - none
2014 - Eric Ebron (nothing special)
2013 - Mr Glass Tyler Eifert

2nd or 3rd Round TE's

2020 - Cole Kmet 
2019 - Irv Smith Jr (Very solid above average TE), Dawson Knox (Important weapon in Buffalo's offense)
2018 - Mike Gesicki (monster TE who killed us), Dallas Goedert (Who is replacing Zach Ertz and has great numbers)
2017 - Gerald Everett
2016 - Hunter Henry (stud), Austin Hooper (2 time Pro-Bowler)
2015 - Tyler Kroft and a few like him... not a deep class
2014 - Richard Rodgers and a lot of guys who are retired. 
2013 - Zach Ertz (Pro Bowler), Travis Kelce (Pro Bowler), Jordan Reed (Pro Bowler)


I'm just not seeing anything in recent years that justifies wasting a top 5 pick on a TE. If you move back and get him at 13 or 14 and get a bunch of other picks, I might be more on-board but look at the list of first round TE's and tell me which of them would be good value at pick 5? And several of them had the same hype as Pitts. Every year the scouts call this QB or this WR or this TE "generational" and honestly, how often do they really prove to be that?

Example, Eifert was "generational" when we took him, and... injured and unavailable. Meanwhile, the guys after him, Ertz and Kelce are in fact the guys changing the TE position.

While I don't disagree with you that TEs can be found after Rd 1 (as you indicate, plenty have), you make it sound like the 1st round TEs are terrible and so many of the guys after are great.

Irv Smith - 311 yards, 2 TDs in 2019. 365 yards, 5 TDs in 2020. I wouldn't call him a "very solid above average TE." That's Drew Sample production.
Dawson Knox - 388 yards, 2 TDs in 2019. 288 yards, 3 TDs in 2020. Again, not very good either. He had some good catches, but he's not a featured member of that offense.
Cole Kmet - 243 yards, 2 TDs. That's worse than Sample.

On the flip side...
Hockenson - 367 yards, 2 TDs as a rookie, 723 yards, 6 TDs in 2020. Hockenson had more production in his 2020 season alone than Smith and Knox have had in two years.
Fant - 562, 3 as a rookie. 673, 3 in 2020. Yet again, way more productive than Smith, Knox, or Kmet.

OJ Howard has been plagued with the injury bug like Eifert, but he's been productive when healthy.
1602 yards and 14 TDs in 42 games is solid. But Howard was more raw coming out of college compared to a guy like Pitts, but he went in the 1st round because of his elite profile. 

Hurst should not have gone in 1st round. My favorite TE in that draft class was Mark Andrews. I really wanted him in Rd 2 or 3. 

Day 2 has been the gem of TEs in recent years, but they all had their flaws coming into the draft, which is why they didn't go in the 1st. Whether it be lack of production, non-elite speed, lack of height, played at a small school/conference, whatever. Pitts is considered so high because he checks off all the boxes for what you would want in a TE in the 1st round. Size, speed, athleticism, high profile school and conference, proven dominant production.

If I was to put money on any TE in this upcoming draft class to become good aside from Pitts, I'd only consider Freiermuth or Brevin Jordan. I think both go in Rd 2. Tre McKitty might become something, but I can easily see him not. He's a perfect early Rd 4 pick.