Tobin Likes Williams At LT?!

[Bilbo Saggins]

Williams has played quite well at LT when compared to other tackles of similar age. That said, Sewell may be more raw than a lot of us are willing to admit. Hell, he may be better served starting his career at guard(or even staying there - his ceiling doesn't mean his floor).


I'd imagine that it would be easier for Jonah to flip over to RT because he has played there and Sewell has only been a LT. Maybe keeping Sewell at LG or LT would be the best way to aid his development. 
The right move is contingent on how FA plays out, how well either player can transition to the other side, health, how Jonah would feel about being asked to flip...too many unknown factors. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-10-2021, 12:07 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's about having your strongest blocker protecting your quarterback's blindside.  

It's just common sense.  

Are you certain Sewell is a better pass protector than Williams right now? Or does Sewell have the potential to be better with more experience?

Honestly, I don’t know for certain. If the Bengals are able to draft Sewell, I think it will take some time to figure out what Oline configuration will be the best for the team. I hope the Bengals’ biggest problem with the Line next year is figuring out if Williams plays LT and Sewell plays RT or vice versa.

I think we need to let the coaches see them play together first before we start declaring who is best at which position. Does that make sense?

[BURROWorBUST]

(03-09-2021, 04:55 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If Sewell is anywhere near the talent people are making him out to be you have to play him at LT.

You have three options if you're the Bengals (and you're smart):

1.) Draft Sewell, and move Jonah to RT
2.) Draft Sewell, and move Jonah to LG
3.) Don't draft Sewell (draft someone else), and keep Jonah at LT

Agreed. I don't think it's a good move to draft a RT with the #5 pick in the draft. Andre Smith was an early round pick, but I don't think he played RT by design. Or had Whit already solidified the LT position by then? 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(03-09-2021, 04:55 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If Sewell is anywhere near the talent people are making him out to be you have to play him at LT.

You have three options if you're the Bengals (and you're smart):

1.) Draft Sewell, and move Jonah to RT
2.) Draft Sewell, and move Jonah to LG
3.) Don't draft Sewell (draft someone else), and keep Jonah at LT

If the Bengals are smart they'll also know that

1) You can be a future HoF LT but that doesn't mean you are the best option to start at LT year 1. See Andrew Whitworth who started at LG and didn't move to LT until I think year 3. Whitworth was both older and more experienced than Sewell when he was drafted and hadn't sat the last year out.
2) The RT will be the one blocking TJ Watt twice a year and Myles Garrett on about half of Garrett's snaps v the Bengals. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-10-2021, 12:44 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I was thinking the samething, Sewell hasn't played a down in about year or so.

Over the last 2 years, Sewell has played in more football games than Jonah.

Last year when Jonah was given the starting LT job, he hadn't played a down in over a year as well.

If Jonah had played 32 or even 28 games over the last 2 years and was average/above average, I would be fine talking about moving Sewell rather than Jonah. We're talking about a guy who's merely an average starter (plenty of value in that, and he could get better) that has only played 10 games over the last 2 years, has been injured 3 separate times over those 2 years, and is by all measures an inferior (not bad, just less) talent to Sewell.

[Fullrock]

Williams had shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum as a rookie to avoid shoulder issues down the line. It's something he probably could have played through, but at some point it was gonna have to be done and the team chose for him to get it done, probably while they felt they were in rebuilding mode rather than playoff contention. He got injured last year when he got rolled up on from the backside and actually avoided what looked like a major knee injury. Using last year's injury as some sort of " he's always injured" is like say Burrow is always injured because his knee got torn up on the hit to it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-09-2021, 04:25 PM)Synric Wrote: Put the 325 to 330lb Tackle that is a more polished run blocker than pass blocker on the strong side of the line that will see the highest percentage of play side runs... Sounds like a smart idea.

Plus, guys like Watt and Garrett line up at the right side as much if not more than the left...at least Watt does.  

I would love a scenario where they are able to get Sewell in Rd 1 and Spencer Brown in Rd 3 and have Sewell start the year at RT with the idea of having him move to LT and Jonah to LG when Brown can take over RT.  That could be the start of a hell of a line.  

[CoachGeorge]

(03-10-2021, 09:07 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Over the last 2 years, Sewell has played in more football games than Jonah.

So in your mind, 14 games against Montana, Nevada and a tier 3 Power 5 conference in 2019 are more meaningful than 10 games in 2020 (after 3 full years against top flight SEC competition) against a legitimate NFL schedule? Interesting take.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-09-2021, 11:33 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: People really need to get over the LT RT stuff. So many good edge rushers come from the left side of the defense, LT isn't the glamour position it used to be. 

These are the guys the Bengals will face (on the roster last year) and how often they come over RT in 2021. 

Bosa - 81% (chargers) 8 sacks last year
TJ Watt - 97% (steelers x 2) 15 sacks last year
Okwara - 59% (lions) 10 sacks last year
Jones - 52% (chiefs) 8 sacks last year
Smith - 50% (packers) 13 sacks last year
Chubb - 20% (broncos) 8 sacks last year
Garrett - 42% (browns x 2) 12 sacks last year
Mack - 84% (bears) 9 sacks last year

That's not including Von Miller--primarily LOLB--who was hurt last year and the Broncos would like to restructure him (possible vet cut). 

I tried to make this point before I read all the posts, but you did some great work here.  

This is the spot on truth.  It isn't about being a LT over a RT, but about having TWO OTs that can negate the outside pass rush and help open holes in the rushing attack.  I still am not sure if the Bengals will have a shot at Sewell, but if he is there I think he is absolutely the pick and I believe he starts at RT.  

Things get interesting outside of that.  I think Spencer Brown is a heck of a prospect for RT, but I would like to have a year to let him develop to this level before forcing him to start.  Free agency is the key.  They need one immediate upgrade starter, and I am hoping it is Thuney.  

That allows them to focus on OT in the draft.  BTW, Thuney played every position on the offensive line in college.  Sure, I would rather put him at LG next to Jonah and have that side be a wall, but in a pinch he could play RT.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-09-2021, 11:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: IF they are able to take Sewell and do so the scenario is going to depend on whether they succeeded in reinforcing Guard in free agency. Granted the interior line play improved once we had both Spain and XSF in at the same time but we still badly need at least one more actual NFL starter caliber Guard. With another strong Guard they could start Sewell at RT and drop Hart. If they fail to get another good Guard again Sewell goes to RT while Hart pushes inside to RG - sets up running right well and by getting us a RT who can play on an island free up the TE to receive more.

Agree with a lot of this, but I don't want Hart at RG.  I hope they sign Thuney for LG and let XSF or Spain battle with a draft pick for RG.  I am still not COMPLETELY against Billy Price competing for RG as I think he is clearly has the strength and, hopefully, is a better fit with Pollack's system.  I won't kill him for his PFF rating the year under Pollack because he was still playing injured.  

Your point about allowing the TE to release is extremely valid as well.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-10-2021, 10:36 AM)CoachGeorge Wrote: So in your mind, 14 games against Montana, Nevada and a tier 3 Power 5 conference in 2019 are more meaningful than 10 games in 2020 (after 3 full years against top flight SEC competition) against a legitimate NFL schedule?  Interesting take.

In my mind a much more talented and much healthier player shouldn't be kicked out of his position for a less talented and less healthy player. That's my take, and it's not a hot one.

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-10-2021, 10:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agree with a lot of this, but I don't want Hart at RG.  I hope they sign Thuney for LG and let XSF or Spain battle with a draft pick for RG.  I am still not COMPLETELY against Billy Price competing for RG as I think he is clearly has the strength and, hopefully, is a better fit with Pollack's system.  I won't kill him for his PFF rating the year under Pollack because he was still playing injured.  

Your point about allowing the TE to release is extremely valid as well.  

I don't want Hart on the team in any capacity besides a backup and he makes to much money for that so........

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-10-2021, 11:14 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't want Hart on the team in any capacity besides a backup and he makes to much money for that so........

I would actually take him as the RT for one more year if they spent on Thuney to play LG and drafted Spencer Brown in Rd 3 to take over for Hart by year's end.  That is the only scenario I would want him, and would only occur if Sewell was gone.  

Drafting Chase would be the pick at #5 for me if Sewell was gone.  I have no interest in Pitts....not for this team.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-10-2021, 11:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I would actually take him as the RT for one more year if they spent on Thuney to play LG and drafted Spencer Brown in Rd 3 to take over for Hart by year's end.  That is the only scenario I would want him, and would only occur if Sewell was gone.  

Drafting Chase would be the pick at #5 for me if Sewell was gone.  I have no interest in Pitts....not for this team.  

The fact is Hart isn't good, AT ALL, at pass pro. You hear people saying stuff like "he's improving every year" like he's going into his 3rd season on his rookie contract. He's entering his 7th season !

We can do better than Bobby Hart. Burrow deserves better than Bobby "Lookout" Hart.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-10-2021, 11:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In my mind a much more talented and much healthier player shouldn't be kicked out of his position for a less talented and less healthy player. That's my take, and it's not a hot one.

Much more talented?? Sewell ISN’T that yet. Potentially he maybe a more talented player down the road, even the second coming of Anthony Munoz, but he is nowhere close to that as a 20 year old. After yesterday’s strong showing by Slater, there is now a strong sentiment that he might not be OT1 in his draft class.

Much healthier player??. In two years of college play he went had a season ending injury in one of those seasons. In five years combined, JW has two season ending injuries. How the heck does that qualify as “much healthier player”? It doesn’t.

Sewell played guard for most of his HS career. LT isn’t “his” position.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-10-2021, 10:16 AM)Fullrock Wrote: Williams had shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum as a rookie to avoid shoulder issues down the line. It's something he probably could have played through, but at some point it was gonna have to be done and the team chose for him to get it done, probably while they felt they were in rebuilding mode rather than playoff contention. He got injured last year when he got rolled up on from the backside and actually avoided what looked like a major knee injury. Using last year's injury as some sort of " he's always injured" is like say Burrow is always injured because his knee got torn up on the hit to it.

Yeah, he’s not quite Eifert 2.0 just yet. Hopefully he can play a full season this year and alleviate some of the concerns.

[Wes Mantooth]

Here is a list of the top 10 highest paid (average per year) Left and Right Tackles:

Left Tackle

David Bakhtiari ----------- 23 million
Laremy Tunsil ------------- 22 million
Ronnie Stanley ----------- 19.75 million
Garett Bolles -------------- 17 million
Taylor Lewan -------------- 16 million
Nate Solder --------------- 15.5 million
Taylor Decker ------------- 14.9 million
DJ Humphries ------------- 14.75
Dion Dawkins ------------- 14.575 million
Jake Matthews ----------- 14.5 million

Average ------------------- 17.6 million

Right Tackle

Lane Johnson -------------- 18 million
Jack Conklin ---------------- 14 million
Taylor Moton --------------- 13.754 million
Juwaun James ------------- 12.75 million
Mitchell Schwartz ---------- 11.255 million
Bryan - Bulaga ------------- 10 million
La'el Collins ----------------- 10 million
George Fant ---------------- 9.2 million
H. Vaitai -------------------- 9 million
Rob Havernstein ------------ 8.125 million

Average --------------------- 11.6 million

You can dismiss the blind side all you like, and you can bring up the pressure brougt on both sides, but you can't argue that the league doesn't value the LT position over the RT position. There's a reason the 22nd best LT (well below average) makes more than the 10th best RT (above average).

You don't draft Penni Sewell at #5 to play RT. I'm sorry, you just don't.

Now, if you're high on Jonah then that's great. Although he was average last year that's a good start to a career. He's not a really problem at the position if he can stay healthy. But if you want to keep him at LT then it only makes sense to pass on Sewell and go elsewhere with the pick. Hell, if you're dead set on drafting a RT in round 1 then trade out of the spot and pick up some picks for trading down.

[Au165]

(03-10-2021, 01:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You can dismiss the blind side all you like, and you can bring up the pressure brougt on both sides, but you can't argue that the league doesn't value the LT position over the RT position.  There's a reason the 22nd best LT (well below average) makes more than the 10th best RT (above average).

You don't draft Penni Sewell at #5 to play RT.  I'm sorry, you just don't.

Now, if you're high on Jonah then that's great.  Although he was average last year that's a good start to a career.  He's not a really problem at the position if he can stay healthy.  But if you want to keep him at LT then it only makes sense to pass on Sewell and go elsewhere with the pick.  Hell, if you're dead set on drafting a RT in round 1 then trade out of the spot and pick up some picks for trading down.

Not even getting into the LT vs RT debate, but I think you can draft Sewell and play him at RT even if he doesn't play RT forever. Taking him and playing him at RT for a year while we see if Jonah can even stay healthy enough to play LT gives us the quickest line to improvement. After a year you move forward from there with potentially kicking Jonah to guard or swapping sides if Sewell is who people say he is and Jonah can stay healthy. If Jonah doesn't stay healthy you slide Sewell over and go back to the drawing board for the right side.

I am not in the Sewell at 5 camp anyways, but I think there is still a pretty reasonable way of approaching this without moving Jonah year 1.

[lone bengal]

The offensive line is a train wreck and Williams is one of the only good lineman we have. I’m not going to complain about him considering all the holes we have on the roster. Williams is named the LT now because there’s no way of knowing if Sewell we be available. Even if we draft Sewell having two good tackles and were they play is a good/ welcomed thing to complain about lol.

[Frank Booth]

(03-10-2021, 12:04 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Much more talented?? Sewell ISN’T that yet. Potentially he maybe a more talented player down the road, even the second coming of Anthony Munoz, but he is nowhere close to that as a 20 year old. After yesterday’s strong showing by Slater, there is now a strong sentiment that he might not be OT1 in his draft class.

Much healthier player??. In two years of college play he went had a season ending injury in one of those seasons. In five years combined, JW has two season ending injuries. How the heck does that qualify as “much healthier player”? It doesn’t.

Sewell played guard for most of his HS career. LT isn’t “his” position.

We got a Jonah Williams fanboy here?