Why are we not extending our good players?

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-08-2021, 12:54 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Has to be a reason to optimistic... And they didnt give us many

You mean last year?  Where they adapted a wide-open offense with lots of empty backfield and let Joe Burrow air it out over 60 times in his second game as a pro?  Lots of folks criticized it. but I wasn't one of them.  Let the guy figure things out his rookie year.  Let him see the windows at this level.  Give him the reigns.  Sure, they believed in guys like Jordan and XSF (injury, not really their fault, but a lack of depth was) too much but Burrow had thrown for over 200 yards at the half before he went down against the WFT....and they were the best front he faced all season. 

DJ Reader was a great signing.  Injury sucked, but once they put some talent around him you will see why the Texans were a perennial contender when he was there.

Vonn Bell had a slow start but he was coming on very strong down the line.  And he gave us JJSS getting blown up on National TV.  In the voice of Whitney Houston: "I will always love you...." Vonn Bell, for that hit.


Mackenzie Alexander was a solid slot CB.

Trae Waynes was a dud, because he clearly didn't take care of himself during COVID as he was afraid of an injury working out on his own so he did nothing.  Recipe for disaster.  I heard recently that was what derailed BJ Finney as well. 

They had a very solid draft.

But then.....

Ross sucked
Green sucked
Mixon was injured
XSF was injured
Most of the offensive line sucked
Geno sucked
Hubbard was injured

I know those injuries happen to all teams, but I don't think anyone saw AJ being the AJ was had last year.  Ross, well, I had high hopes that were wasted.  And Geno sucked largely because of his injury (giving him the benefit of the doubt, although his play had been declining).  

So, in all, they had injuries to key players and the top players they were expecting things from just didn't pan out.  But, we saw what we saw in Joe Burrow.  

Fast forward to this season:  

They got rid of that douche of an offensive line coach.  They are changing the uniforms.  They are building a Ring of Honor.  They are talking about things like "earning their stripes" and putting themselves out there as an organization.  I have never seen something like that from this franchise and if they can follow up last year's excellent FA period with another one this year, I will be incredibly excited heading in to the draft.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-08-2021, 10:32 PM)Destro Wrote: Future, maybe, but when is unknown. We have Burrow but one player does not take this team to a playoff win. Bengals need to change what they do in order to win. Last off season, while they did a few things, doesn't undo the f***ery that was the previous decades. Bad luck, injuries, blah, blah. The record is what it is.

You're a good to above average O-Lineman. I can go to Cincy or KC. Which do you choose? Some guys will chase money, sure. So the Bengals win a bidding war for a player. Maybe it works out. Maybe you get a guy who only wanted a paycheck and they fluff out. Has happened many times before. Takes scouting and luck. Don't think the Bengals have ever had much of either.

Burrow only got here by one route: the Bengals were the worst team in the NFL and drafted #1OA. Didn't make it a full season, just like so many of our 1st rounders before him. 

Don't disagree as you know Destro, just hoping that FA last Offseason and getting Burrow helps to change some of the 
preconceived notions of the past and good to above average O-lineman want to come here cause of Burrow and things 
starting to change. I just think our luck is bound to change and in the end you make your own luck.

We will see how we attack FA and Draft this year but in my opinion we did well in both last Offseason and if we can follow
that up with another and the coaching improving things should really be looking up.

[Destro]

(03-09-2021, 09:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't disagree as you know Destro, just hoping that FA last Offseason and getting Burrow helps to change some of the 
preconceived notions of the past and good to above average O-lineman want to come here cause of Burrow and things 
starting to change. I just think our luck is bound to change and in the end you make your own luck.

We will see how we attack FA and Draft this year but in my opinion we did well in both last Offseason and if we can follow
that up with another and the coaching improving things should really be looking up.

I like all things Burrow. I think my favorite in stripes since early AJ. I am just not a fan of those who protect him and those who are in charge of getting/retaining players to help make him successful. We sucked our way into getting Burrow. Everyone else takes some work and when that happens, Bengals miss a lot. Would love for that to change. 

Time is now to go all in and I still think ( hope I'm wrong ), that they will ho-hum all the way into the season. Taylor has to explode this year or get out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-09-2021, 10:41 PM)Destro Wrote: I like all things Burrow. I think my favorite in stripes since early AJ. I am just not a fan of those who protect him and those who are in charge of getting/retaining players to help make him successful. We sucked our way into getting Burrow. Everyone else takes some work and when that happens, Bengals miss a lot. Would love for that to change. 

Time is now to go all in and I still think ( hope I'm wrong ), that they will ho-hum all the way into the season. Taylor has to explode this year or get out.

Agree with all of that.

[BengalChris]

(03-06-2021, 12:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think the last legit extension I can think of for one of our really good players was Joe Mixon last off-season.

Why are we not/haven't we extended guys like WJ3, Bates, Lawson, etc.

Bates is a FA after this year. They are going to let Lawson and WJ3 walk...like what are we doing?

The Bengals are still on the Zac plan. They haven't yet realized that he's a clusterf'k.

 

[XenoMorph]

(03-09-2021, 10:41 PM)Destro Wrote: I like all things Burrow. I think my favorite in stripes since early AJ. I am just not a fan of those who protect him and those who are in charge of getting/retaining players to help make him successful. We sucked our way into getting Burrow. Everyone else takes some work and when that happens, Bengals miss a lot. Would love for that to change. 

Time is now to go all in and I still think ( hope I'm wrong ), that they will ho-hum all the way into the season. Taylor has to explode this year or get out.

the smart play would have been to get a competent coaching staff the moment we had the #1 pick for the draft.. Not letting the clowns that got us there waste a year or 2 of his career.

[Destro]

(03-10-2021, 03:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: the smart play ...

And this is where the things for the Bengals fall apart. 

[Joelist]

Well since the Bengals did not tag anyone and also retained Anuramo I suspect we are going to be seeing next season if we can field the worst D in NFL history. If they really use Free Agency to build a good line and draft well for weapons we could field a truly entertaining team in that they both cannot be stopped on offense and cannot stop anyone on defense!

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I think the bet the Bengals are making is this:

1) The FA period is going to be a buyers market. With the cap dropping, a lot of teams are going to have to cut high-salaried, good players. And with so few teams with cap space, a lot of them will sign for less than they were making, and less than they normally would.

2) We are one of the few teams with significant cap space.

3) We'd rather preserve that $$ for FA and hope the FAmarket is not real lucrative for Lawson & WJ3. They are not top 5 level (tag worthy), but if someone wants to pay them as such, more power to them. We'll go shopping with the cash savings for replacements.

And this assumes WJ3 and Lawson want to return. They might not.

FWIW, I'd prioritize Lawson over WJ3.

[Sled21]

(03-09-2021, 09:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You mean last year?  Where they adapted a wide-open offense with lots of empty backfield and let Joe Burrow air it out over 60 times in his second game as a pro?  Lots of folks criticized it. but I wasn't one of them.  Let the guy figure things out his rookie year.  Let him see the windows at this level.  Give him the reigns.  Sure, they believed in guys like Jordan and XSF (injury, not really their fault, but a lack of depth was) too much but Burrow had thrown for over 200 yards at the half before he went down against the WFT....and they were the best front he faced all season. 

DJ Reader was a great signing.  Injury sucked, but once they put some talent around him you will see why the Texans were a perennial contender when he was there.

Vonn Bell had a slow start but he was coming on very strong down the line.  And he gave us JJSS getting blown up on National TV.  In the voice of Whitney Houston: "I will always love you...." Vonn Bell, for that hit.


Mackenzie Alexander was a solid slot CB.

Trae Waynes was a dud, because he clearly didn't take care of himself during COVID as he was afraid of an injury working out on his own so he did nothing.  Recipe for disaster.  I heard recently that was what derailed BJ Finney as well. 

They had a very solid draft.

But then.....

Ross sucked
Green sucked
Mixon was injured
XSF was injured
Most of the offensive line sucked
Geno sucked
Hubbard was injured

I know those injuries happen to all teams, but I don't think anyone saw AJ being the AJ was had last year.  Ross, well, I had high hopes that were wasted.  And Geno sucked largely because of his injury (giving him the benefit of the doubt, although his play had been declining).  

So, in all, they had injuries to key players and the top players they were expecting things from just didn't pan out.  But, we saw what we saw in Joe Burrow.  

Fast forward to this season:  

They got rid of that douche of an offensive line coach.  They are changing the uniforms.  They are building a Ring of Honor.  They are talking about things like "earning their stripes" and putting themselves out there as an organization.  I have never seen something like that from this franchise and if they can follow up last year's excellent FA period with another one this year, I will be incredibly excited heading in to the draft.  

Agree with 100% of this. I know I'm in a very small minority when it comes to passing attempts by Burrow. Did we ask him to pass too much, maybe, but we didn't draft him to hand the ball off, Dalton could have done that. He was in empty backfield sets because, in his own words, that is what he is most comfortable with. And yes, it sucks he got his knee injured, but I would suggest Burrow learned more in the 3/4 of a season he played behind out crappy lines that most QB's do in 3 years behind lines where they are not pressured every play. Improve the line and Burrow is now ready to carve some teams up. 

Love Alexanders play and fire, would have loved to see more Reader, and Waynes getting injured really hurt. Injuries happen to all teams, but c'mon, there were several positions where we were starting 4th through 6th on the depth chart. According to the guys in Sirius, your drop off between 1 and 2 should not be that great, but when you get to three and beyond you are in a hopeless situation. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-11-2021, 09:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Agree with 100% of this. I know I'm in a very small minority when it comes to passing attempts by Burrow. Did we ask him to pass too much, maybe, but we didn't draft him to hand the ball off, Dalton could have done that. He was in empty backfield sets because, in his own words, that is what he is most comfortable with. And yes, it sucks he got his knee injured, but I would suggest Burrow learned more in the 3/4 of a season he played behind out crappy lines that most QB's do in 3 years behind lines where they are not pressured every play. Improve the line and Burrow is now ready to carve some teams up. 

Love Alexanders play and fire, would have loved to see more Reader, and Waynes getting injured really hurt. Injuries happen to all teams, but c'mon, there were several positions where we were starting 4th through 6th on the depth chart. According to the guys in Sirius, your drop off between 1 and 2 should not be that great, but when you get to three and beyond you are in a hopeless situation. 

It only lasted a mere days that I envisioned the defensive line being very strong with Geno next to Reader, and Hubbard with Lawson/Dunlap outside.  It sure sounded good, but then with Geno's injury, the vision faded before the season even started.  

I don't blame the secondary as much for the defensive struggles (except the horrible Sims...that guy has no business getting snaps, but to your earlier point...injuries forced their hand) as there was next to no pass rush from Dunlap, and Hubbard got injured.  The talent next to Reader was inept, and then they also lost Reader.  The defense should improve tremendously if they can stay healthy.  

One guy I have been eyeballing to replace Atkins is Soloman Thomas, a former first round pick that SF asked to play outside (mistake) and could have a resurgence in Cincinnati at a good price (probably $5 million per).  

[Sled21]

(03-11-2021, 11:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It only lasted a mere days that I envisioned the defensive line being very strong with Geno next to Reader, and Hubbard with Lawson/Dunlap outside.  It sure sounded good, but then with Geno's injury, the vision faded before the season even started.  

I don't blame the secondary as much for the defensive struggles (except the horrible Sims...that guy has no business getting snaps, but to your earlier point...injuries forced their hand) as there was next to no pass rush from Dunlap, and Hubbard got injured.  The talent next to Reader was inept, and then they also lost Reader.  The defense should improve tremendously if they can stay healthy.  

One guy I have been eyeballing to replace Atkins is Soloman Thomas, a former first round pick that SF asked to play outside (mistake) and could have a resurgence in Cincinnati at a good price (probably $5 million per).  

I haven't seen him play, but I read where they are calling him a bust and if he were drafted again he would go no higher than 4th round. But if it's because he's out of position that makes sense. I would also like to see them resign Hunt to play DT again and put him in there on passing downs. He seems to have gotten the knack for knocking down passes and at his height all he has to do is put his arms up. And he was not good as an end because his only move was the bull rush, but that's all he needs on the inside. Push the pocket straight back and let the ends eat.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2021, 09:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Agree with 100% of this. I know I'm in a very small minority when it comes to passing attempts by Burrow. Did we ask him to pass too much, maybe, but we didn't draft him to hand the ball off, Dalton could have done that. He was in empty backfield sets because, in his own words, that is what he is most comfortable with. And yes, it sucks he got his knee injured, but I would suggest Burrow learned more in the 3/4 of a season he played behind out crappy lines that most QB's do in 3 years behind lines where they are not pressured every play. Improve the line and Burrow is now ready to carve some teams up. 

Love Alexanders play and fire, would have loved to see more Reader, and Waynes getting injured really hurt. Injuries happen to all teams, but c'mon, there were several positions where we were starting 4th through 6th on the depth chart. According to the guys in Sirius, your drop off between 1 and 2 should not be that great, but when you get to three and beyond you are in a hopeless situation. 

Yeah, we were decimated by injuries man. I know this is an excuse but having guys like Bledsoe and Covington starting hurts 
badly in the middle of your Defense. Not to mention not seeing a snap of Waynes and Geno being non-existent. Hubbard got 
injured too but ended up being the best run stopper in the league at his position. We will see how we attack FA while cutting 
dead weight. Lots of ways to go but the trenches need to be shored up on both sides.

Then hope our guys stay healthy going into the season. If we can stay healthy we can truly judge these coaches and if they 
are holding our team back, we move onto another HC where he already has a good team to work with.