And so it Begins: Zeitler to Ravens

[jj22]

(03-15-2021, 11:47 AM)Au165 Wrote: The top FA linebackers last year played horribly this past season, so that probably was a blessing in disguise

Well I agree with that, but that can happen with any FA. 

[jj22]

(03-15-2021, 11:51 AM)Au165 Wrote: Dre was one of the worst corners in the league last year, what are you talking about. 

Dre had one of his best years last year (stats). What are YOU talking about? PFF or something?

Every Arizona game I caught, Dre was active and making plays.

[Au165]

(03-15-2021, 11:53 AM)jj22 Wrote: Dre had one of his best years last year. What are YOU talking about?

Aside from his 49 PFF grade, here is a good representation of how bad he was. Notice he is in the same area as LeShaun Sims.

Target rate (x), completion percentage over expectation allowed (y) and EPA allowed (color) for outside corners in 2020.

Down = good
Red = good
Left = lower target rate

All data including EPA from Next Gen Stats. pic.twitter.com/wft1ucZHi2

— Seth Walder (@SethWalder) March 11, 2021

[jj22]

Ok so it was the "or something".

The thing about these "or somethings". We'd all take Denzel Ward and look where he landed. Or even the pro bowler Marshon Lattimore who this "or something" doesn't have as being much better than Dre.

I remember when you could just compare regular stats (tackles, sacks, INT, FF, TKFL) before people needed a reason to ignore the simple stats.

[Au165]

(03-15-2021, 11:59 AM)jj22 Wrote: Ok so it was the "or something".

The thing about these "or somethings". We'd all take Denzel Ward and look where he landed. Or even Marshon Lattimore who this "or something" doesn't have as being much better than Dre.

Notice the line from Ward, the name is far-right but he is squarely in the center so about average to above average, same with lattimore. The lines are hard to see and if you hadn't seen this chart before you wouldn't notice it. Dre was bad, for instance, each time they played the Cardinals he was abused. In one game against locket, he gave up 9 receptions on 11 targets for 2 TD's and 70 yards.

The reason people ignore "simple stats" is because they don't tell you what is actually happening play-by-play during the game. The example I always use is that a pop pass on a jet sweep that goes for 90 yards and a TD counts as such to the QB who did absolutely nothing in that play to warrant any credit, so he should recieve none.

[JWW1971]

(03-15-2021, 11:03 AM)jj22 Wrote: We see when teams really want to improve, vs when teams just talk.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/15/ravens-sign-kevin-zeitler/

 

And so the Madness begins

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2021, 11:49 AM)jj22 Wrote: Dre if not better than Waynes, is likely no more than a wash. 

Dre was not a Bengal.  He was a free agent.

You keep talking about how we had no need to sign any free agents, but when I ask who who our starters would be you start listing free agents instead of Bengals.

So with no Dennard or Kirkpatrick who were our starting CBs going to be if we did not "need" to sign free agent CBs?

[BenZoo2]

So now we’re bitching about last years free agent class because zietler signed with the ravens? We might have hit rock bottom.

We do not know if the bengals reached out or not. He may have declined to come here. Maybe he was scheduled there first and got an offer he was ok with from a team a lot closer to playoff success than we are.

We were all stunned last year at what they did in free agency. My only real gripe was the amount they gave wayans. I would have preferred bradberry for a little more. Oh well.

How do you know signing reader wasn’t a precursor to Atkins getting cut this year? Or if they played great together have a tough, up the gut defense this year?

I’ve been critical of their free agency periods in the past but I’m not about to start bitching because 1 guy signed elsewhere. We aren’t going to sign everyone who can help up and if that was your expectation it’s going to be a long free agency period for you. Step off the ledge and come back in 2 weeks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*Synric*]

I for one liked the Trae Waynes signing I wasn't ecstatic about the contract but I like the player.

[Sled21]

Face it, had they signed Zeitler this thread would just have been about how the Bengals only sign re-treads.

[jj22]

(03-15-2021, 12:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Face it, had they signed Zeitler this thread would just have been about how the Bengals only sign re-treads.

I didn't get that impression when people mentioned signing Zeitler since he was released? Are you just making this up? I read no pushback from the idea.

If anything it was preferable then breaking the bank for Thuney if it meant we had funds left over to sign a couple other players?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2021, 12:07 PM)Synric Wrote: I for one liked the Trae Waynes signing I wasn't ecstatic about the contract but I like the player.

He was a quality CB2 who ended up getting paid like a CB1.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2021, 12:07 PM)Synric Wrote: I for one liked the Trae Waynes signing I wasn't ecstatic about the contract but I like the player.

The guy got injured and never played a down. It is the NFL and that happens, Reader got hurt too. Hopefully both are healthy in 2021.

Any analysis of 2020 on either of those signings is based on the perception of the fan prior to an actual start of the 2020 season. Some say Waynes was paid too much, I say Geno was paid too much and Green last year wholly cow was he overpaid. Those 2 guys have actual games played to back up they stunk in 2020 and were overpaid.

Waynes, not at all, it is just and opinion as did not play a snap.

[jj22]

(03-15-2021, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dre was not a Bengal.  He was a free agent.

You keep talking about how we had no need to sign any free agents, but when I ask who who our starters would be you start listing free agents instead of Bengals.

So with no Dennard or Kirkpatrick who were our starting CBs going to be if we did not "need" to sign free agent CBs?

Dre was cut after the Waynes signing Fred. The fake news while works if constantly repeated won't work with me.

[Luvnit2]

(03-15-2021, 12:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He was a quality CB2 who ended up getting paid like a CB1.

Again, how do you know that? He did not play a snap?????????????????

BTW... agreat CBI gets paid a lot more, there are different levels of pay for a CB1 after their rookie contract.

[Sled21]

(03-15-2021, 12:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I didn't get that impression when people mentioned signing Zeitler since he was released? Are you just making this up? I read no pushback from the idea.

If anything it was preferable then breaking the bank for Thuney if it meant we had funds left over to sign a couple other players?

You've been around here long enough that people are going to complain no matter what.

[Whatever]

(03-15-2021, 11:49 AM)jj22 Wrote: Did you see what Dennard and Billings had signed for? Billings/Tupou made bigger impacts on the line then the highest paid NT in the league. And besides, we finally break the bank and it's on NT? No one thought that was necessary (until today I guess) given where the money could have went.

Waynes we all agreed was overpaid and the worse FA signing of the bunch, so I think it's lame folks want to forget now, but I see Fred has others playing along. 

Dre if not better than Waynes, is likely no more than a wash. Again, we all agreed on this up until about an hour ago. 

Well, yeah, Reader got hurt and missed most of the year.  Although Billings and Tupou both opted out last year.  Apparently, we can forecast injuries, but not opt outs.

He was overpaid.  The worst team in the league is going to have to overpay for FA's.  The consensus at the time is that he was overpaid, but people understood that that's what it took to get big name FA's.

Alexander signed very early in FA.  Dennard likely overpriced himself, like he did the previous off-season, and the Bengals decided to move on.  Dennard then took whatever he could get at the end of FA.  There's no way he was taking that at the start of FA.

[*pally*]

(03-15-2021, 11:53 AM)jj22 Wrote: Dre had one of his best years last year (stats). What are YOU talking about? PFF or something?

Every Arizona game I caught, Dre was active and making plays.

Arizona missed the playoffs because a boneheaded penalty by Dre led to a loss to Seattle.  Seattle scored after a personal foul on Dre gave Seattle a 1st down after the Cards stopped held them to a 3rd and out.  If they had won that game they would have been a wildcard.  Instead, Chicago got that spot.  Another stupid Dre penalty in a long string of stupid penalties. 

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2021, 12:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I didn't get that impression when people mentioned signing Zeitler since he was released? Are you just making this up? I read no pushback from the idea.

If anything it was preferable then breaking the bank for Thuney if it meant we had funds left over to sign a couple other players?

So if we sign Thuney your are going to cry and whine about that also?

You really have all the bases covered here, don't you/

[jj22]

(03-15-2021, 12:25 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, yeah, Reader got hurt and missed most of the year.  Although Billings and Tupou both opted out last year.  Apparently, we can forecast injuries, but not opt outs.

He was overpaid.  The worst team in the league is going to have to overpay for FA's.  The consensus at the time is that he was overpaid, but people understood that that's what it took to get big name FA's.

Alexander signed very early in FA.  Dennard likely overpriced himself, like he did the previous off-season, and the Bengals decided to move on.  Dennard then took whatever he could get at the end of FA.  There's no way he was taking that at the start of FA.

Nobody tried to forecast injuries. I'm talking need.