When will Zac be fired?

[Benton]

(05-11-2021, 01:05 PM)TJ528 Wrote: See i disagree with you.  If Marvin was coaching the 2003 team against Zac i'll agree the 2003 team wins all day every day, because they have a competent coach leading them.  They have talent.  

However, if that 2003 team was coached by Dick Lebeau vs 2019 Bengals its a lot closer than you think because you have 2 shitty coaching staffs going against each other who couldn't game plan their way out of a paper bag.  

(05-11-2021, 02:35 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs. For one,  they don't really refute my point. For another reason,  I didn't say anything to the contrary about Levi,  Chad or Willie. Nor is any of that stuff I didn't know. But it's interesting that this roster couldn't win more than 2 games the year before Marvin came in. The reason I mentioned Spikes and Dillon is that,  when Marvin took over in 2003, one of the (if not THE) best player from that defense was gone,  and Dillon didn't play many games nor play at his best in the one year he played for Marv. I also pointed out how T.J was a fairly average player at best before Marvin's tenure. The fact that Marv took these players and finally got them to an 8-8 season after a bunch of losing seasons in a row leads me to give Marvin more credit in developing the level of many of these players (whether we're talking very good to great,  or average to very good etc. ).

All of which means I totally disagree with your third paragraph.  I think Marvin would have done much better than the two wins Taylor got in 2019 with the same roster. I can't say that I'm seeing players develop more under Taylor than Marvin. It's debatable that maybe Bates and Boyd wouldn't have gotten to their current levels under Marv, but at least it's debatable either way. I'm not sure Taylor has improved any players' level since he took over. And you could argue a few have regressed. So I wouldn't give the advantage to the 2003 roster,  certainly not an overwhelming one. I believe the advantage in coaching is overwhelmingly in favor of Marvin.

Eh, the 2002 team had a horrid record because of bad coaching and a lot of it still being young. That's the exact opposite of the 2019 team (except for the coaching part). It was a bad team that was mostly old.

I don't disagree with the idea Marvin would have done better with that crappy roster. It was, in part, the crappy roster he assembled. Marvin had his style of ball, which was "don't lose". That's the kind of guys he looked for. Guys who weren't necessarily good, but who were consistent. 

So I agree Marvin would've won more than Zac did in 2019, but I completely disagree that the 2019 was a better roster than the 2003 roster. Hell, 2003 at least had an ol if nothing else.