06-30-2021, 08:02 AM
(06-30-2021, 12:08 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually we don't know for sure how the players feel. No matter how bad a coach sucks players almost always speak positively of their current coach. That applies to every team, not just the Bengals.
I 100% agree with you that players will tow the company line and be positive while under contract. Hell, Mike Brown famously invented a contract clause (Thanks, Carl Pickens) to stop guys from being disparaging. So, there's certainly a major element to what you're saying.
The players actions under Taylor, however, are what speaks volumes to me. The players continued to work hard, play hard, and show up last season - even while losing. I love that. That speaks to their character as guys, but also to Taylor's in the sense of - if they hated him or didn't care, would they: Keep battling through season end? Would they have enthusiasm? Would they remain positive? Would they beat the Steelers the way they did on MNF with a 3rd string QB?
^ I think those actions speak the loudest. Now throw in the fact that the players are coming to voluntaries with 100% attendance and, to me, they are screaming with support of Taylor through their actions. They aren't doing that on their own if they thought Taylor couldn't cut it or wasn't capable.
(06-30-2021, 02:15 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Thing with this is, the players can like him and he can be a good guy and build a good culture and still not be a good play caller or game manager.
What I've seen is a guy that has worked to get his type of players but then hires coaches like Taylor that are the exact opposite. He seems to have an idea of what he wants to do and I do believe the players like him and buy his concepts, but he just isn't ready to be the guy making all the decisions at this point. He needed some time as an O.C.
Ok, so, this is where I agree with you to an extent, but you and I part ways at the fork in the Taylor road. Let me explain...
There is no way... NO WAY... anyone should have looked at the Taylor signing - or the Bengals roster when he was hired - and thought it was designed to win now (2019/20). Of course he wasn't ready and of course the roster was going to need remade. To me, the Taylor hire was about transitioning a roster and a culture change with an eye towards the modern NFL, which had passed Marvin by.
Taylor was going to have to learn on the job and was in over his head from day 1. But that doesn't mean he will ALWAYS be in over his head. There's a difference between learning and drowning. Last year, I didn't see a guy drowning (2019? Yeah, he was struggling). But, in 2020, I saw a guy who was a player or two away from having an very good team and a handful of players (and some coaching changes) away from having a great team - all things considered.
I see possible long term benefits to Taylor having the freedom to learn as he goes... and NO, LOL, those benefits weren't going to show up in immediate wins and losses right away. I do think there are a lot of good things and changes the team has made and am ok with the 2 steps back to take 5 steps forward, if that's what was needed in the long run.
Are there things I look at and think they were idiotic or were major lessons for the guy? YES. But I, personally, always thought it was going to be year 3 or 4 before Taylor was going to be able to have serious expectations in terms of wins/losses. I think the Bengals hired a super smart, up and coming guy who had to learn the ins and outs of coaching. I am ok seeing that through because I think organizations and fans are wayyyyy too short with the hook with coaches.
Bottom line for me: Regardless of how tough the schedule is or Joey B's knee, the Bengals MUST show major improvement in wins/losses THIS season for Taylor to remain. 2 years is enough time to figure out what needs to be done and know how to do it. I think the Bengals have a lot of talent. More than people are willing to admit. Those close, 1 score losses need to change into wins and at this stage with the roster having the talent that it does coaching & game management/planning matters.
