How to separate "talent" from "coaching"

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2021, 01:46 PM)tms Wrote: You totally misunderstood. If anything you're reinforcing my point. The team was obviously better- they wouldn't have won the SB otherwise. But what changed other than Brady? The roster, coaches and coords were not new. The defense swapped just three starters: at NT, CB and S. None was a game-changer. In fact, I might argue they were all were lateral moves. Yet the Bucs still made the ultimate leap.

If it wasn't Brady changing the culture of the team (as I said initially) then it must have been something else. Shake n Bake thinks they were already good enough. Likewise, BengalChris believes the roster was "loaded". They're fair points and everyone's entitled to their view, but this one is belied by the losing that preceded Brady. Were all those teams "loaded" as well? It's a tough argument to make. Unless you felt that any team with 7+ wins should join the Tom Brady sweepstakes, it was a surprise.

Despite how it looks with 20/20 hindsight, the Bucs had been mired in mediocrity for over a decade. They finished 8 of the previous 11 years in last place (!!!). There's nothing simple about turning those kinds of teams around- we know that in Cincinnati better than most- let alone doing it by adding a 43-yo quarterback whose weak arm can only be undershot by his weaker athleticism.

All I'm saying is that he brought some serious intangibles to the table that cannot be captured by stats (as you said yourself). Either it was a miracle or he has the secret sauce. Because he made chicken salad out of.... a 7-win team lol, and Belichick wasn't there to help him. 

What changed other than Tom Brady? They had a 2nd year in a new defense. That's generally when you see the big change. Just look at the Bengals in 2007 were the 24th scoring defense. Zimmer comes and they are the 19th scoring defense in 2008. Then 2009 happens and they are the 6th scoring defense and go to the playoffs.

You focus on the 2020 changes, but there were huge 2019 changes that just took time to all gel together in a new defense. They added Ndamukong Suh and Shaquil Barrett, they drafted Devin White. None of that was because of Brady.

So what changed for the Bucs? They went from the 29th scoring defense to the 8th scoring defense. Tom Brady's intangibles didn't make the defense become a top-10 defense. TWO 2nd Team All-Pro LBs along with a bunch of great pass rushers all in their 2nd year in the system did that. 

But sure, focus on what they did a decade ago as somehow proof that the 2020 Bucs wouldn't have been a good team without Brady even though those weren't the same players or coaches and thus completely irrelevant. The Bucs are loaded and Bruce Arians is getting the best out of them. The same way that he had Carson Palmer QB'd team go 13-3 and win a playoff game.