How to separate "talent" from "coaching"

[BengalChris]

(09-08-2021, 02:08 PM)tms Wrote: I see what you're saying and it's a gruesome stat. But the Bucs fared even worse in the years when he threw fewer picks lol. There must have been more to the story. For that matter, you should bring it up with TheLeonardLeap. He seems to think they won because the defense improved. So unless he's suggesting the defensive improvement (and the team's more broadly) can be explained by Winston not throwing interceptions on offense, I'm just the middleman here. If anything I'm the common thread between all of you. It's clear that there was was an "X-factor" that impacted positively on all three phases of their team. 

I mean, you could say it was addition by subtraction, but I think that's too simple. These are professional teams. I personally think it was addition by addition- but exactly what they added is hard to isolate. It goes beyond stats and analytics. It's fascinating.

Each year is a new year.

(09-08-2021, 02:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What changed other than Tom Brady? They had a 2nd year in a new defense. That's generally when you see the big change. Just look at the Bengals in 2007 were the 24th scoring defense. Zimmer comes and they are the 19th scoring defense in 2008. Then 2009 happens and they are the 6th scoring defense and go to the playoffs.

You focus on the 2020 changes, but there were huge 2019 changes that just took time to all gel together in a new defense. They added Ndamukong Suh and Shaquil Barrett, they drafted Devin White. None of that was because of Brady.

So what changed for the Bucs? They went from the 29th scoring defense to the 8th scoring defense. Tom Brady's intangibles didn't make the defense become a top-10 defense. TWO 2nd Team All-Pro LBs along with a bunch of great pass rushers all in their 2nd year in the system did that. 

But sure, focus on what they did a decade ago as somehow proof that the 2020 Bucs wouldn't have been a good team without Brady even though those weren't the same players or coaches and thus completely irrelevant. The Bucs are loaded and Bruce Arians is getting the best out of them. The same way that he had Carson Palmer QB'd team go 13-3 and win a playoff game.

The Bucs actually looked at a little sketchy in Nov. They lost 3 of 4 games going into their bye week.

At that point, and the team talked about this after the season, they took a step and looked at what they did well on offense and what didn't work well. They started calling more screens and runs and changed the game plans up that way. They didn't lose a game after that, all the way to a SB win.

I'm sure there were changes that I don't know about, but the bye week changes were key.