Big Ben's Retiring........

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-13-2021, 05:37 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: I'll begin by saying I don't think he's necessarily a first ballot lock.  He's certainly on the bubble behind several of his contemporaries (Brees, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers especially).  

But ... 

You're cherry picking stats here.  Hall of Famers are chosen based on careers, not on single season highlights, though I will point out that you conveniently forgot that he led the NFL in passing yards twice.  Still, if HoF consideration was based on solely on the existence of standout seasons, there'd be a serious conversation going on about Cam Newton.  And which of you would argue that he's a serious candidate based on his TOTAL body of work?  

However, if you look at Ben's overall career, you'll find that: 

He has a better career completion percentage than several hall of famers, including, but not limited to: Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Steve Young.  In fact, only two current Hall of Famers had a higher career completion %.    

He has a better career passer rating than several hall of famers, including, but not limited to: Kurt warner, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, John Elway, and Brett Favre.  Again, there are only two current Hall of Famers who had a better career rating.  

He has more career passing TDs than Hall of Famers John Elway and Warren Moon, and is very close to catching Dan Marino.  There are other Hall of famers on the list he has more than as well, but they had shorter careers.  These three had careers of comparable length.  Only two current HoFers had more career TDs.  

He has a higher yards/game average than several Hall of Famers, including but not limited to:  Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Troy Aikman and Steve Young.  There are - you guessed it - only two current HoFers who are higher in this category as well.  

There are also only two career HoFers with more total passing yards.  

And yes, I know that some of these guys were from different eras, and that the game has become more passer friendly over the years.  I didn't include players whose careers began any earlier than the early to mid-80s for that exact reason.  But even so, Ben is among the top twenty all time career leaders in each of these categories.  

I'm not a big fan of the guy personally, but the assertion that he would get in solely based on some sort of "Steeler discount" is absurd.  His career definitely deserves to be in the conversation on its own.  

So Brad, when you tweet and message those shows, and are wondering why you get no responses, I'd suggest that you reflect on these things.  

That's an awfully large post for a point that is trying to be made poorly. Cool, Ben has better stats than guys who played decades ago. You know who else does? Everyone. Even if you didn't include anyone who started playing before the 80s there's still huge incomparable differences.

When Dan Marino played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was only 58.2%.
While Ben Roethlisberger played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was 65.2%.

In '83 when Marino came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 33. In '04 when Ben came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 51. Last year there were more teams with 40+ passing TDs than there were with 30+ in '83.

In '83 the average QB Rating was 75.9, in '99 for Marino's last year it was 77.1.... By '04 the average QB Rating was 82.8, and by last year it rose to 93.6

You can go straight down the list for all those stats you mentioned. You could compare Kirk Cousins and Matthew Stafford to old Hall of Famers and it would look silly statistically, because the times have changed. 

Andy Dalton has a higher Comp% than Jim Kelly, only 14 less TDs, only 700 less yards, and a higher QB Rating. By the end of his career he'll have more TDs and more yards. Doesn't mean Andy Dalton should ever be sniffing the HoF. It just means passing became way easier.

All of your post doesn't change the fact that Ben wasn't even a Top-5 QB of his own time (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers) with 0 All-Pros and 0 MVPs and doesn't deserve to be a HoFer, but will get in anyway because of a lowered barrier for entry for Steelers, doubly so if he goes into the media as there's an even further lowered barrier for entry for media members.