03-09-2022, 03:14 PM
(03-09-2022, 02:35 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: "I was trying to be realistic with our current situation of Boyd already tagged and no other safeties on the roster"
Uh, does the name Vonn Bell ring any bells? The other staring safety? Brandon Wilson and Trayvon Henderson are depth pieces that are under contract that could be upgraded. So three safeties on the roster. And I suggested tagging and trading (if possible) Bates then drafting his replacement with a high round pick. Not a late round pick WR to replace a starter.
"Whoever, just dont trutst a rookie to be the man his 1st season"
Don't count on a rookie his first season, except for a starting WR with a late round rookie WR instead of a first round rookie safety? Like Jesse Bates during his rookie season? Can you imagine the Bengals starting a rookie FS? Well, since Jesse Bates in 2018, I can't. I don't need to imagine it because it actually happened.
"We need both but since we have oline on the roster, we are definitely signing oline and you are cutting Bates there may be more pressure on the Safety spot."
We do need both. You listed Oline as a more important priority than a FS and that is because they protect the franchise QB and open holes (hopefully) for Mixon.
Bates has had one great season, one good season, and two meh seasons. That doesn't make him elite. That makes him inconsistent and just as likely to deliver a meh season as a great season.
So protecting the franchise QB and improving the run game takes priority over a inconsistent, disgruntled FS who you admit will be overpaid. Plus, I planned on addressing both. The Oline with free agents. FS with a high draft pick. Since Top 5 FA IOL generally cost less than Top 5 FA S the plan also saves cap space (and possible cash.)
"I dont disagree thats why I was ok keeping Bates at a reasonable price."
A long term deal for Bates will mostly likely be 4yrs/$60M. That's not reasonable. Paying a one year rental $12M instead of applying the money to a long term solution at another position (Oline) is a poor investment.
"WR3 doesnt take much when the vast majority of passes are going to Chase and Higgins. Again I think we win the Super Bowl with Trent Taylor at the slot and a 10M RG instead of Boyd. I never said rely on an olineman I am simply dealing with reality as to how the Bengals have always operated. We may get 2 oline free agents, who they end up signing will result in most likely 2 spots to be filled by on roster guys & rookies."
That's ignoring 81% of Boyd's 2021 sample size. My idea addresses the Oline. Specifically mentioned RG.
What's the reality of how the Bengals operated during the last two seasons? Are they an outlier like Bates' one great year. Or are they the new norm? I'd say the sample size is too small to determine.
"You really dont want to over pay Bates and I agree the OP made a suggestion regarding Boyd and you took this thing down a billion paths because of Bates. While in reality Bates will be here and so will Boyd. It was a hypothetical."
I suggested tagging and trading Bates to improve the Oline and save money overall. Then you dragged the argument in about how Bates is worth more because of crappy CBs. Again, that is false. The CBs are still more valuable than a FS. If you have crappy CBs, release Waynes, don't tag Bates and those two moves frees up $22-23M for a top tier CB. But, don't claim you have to overpay a FS because the CBs suck when you can prioritize the CBs over the FS.
I don't even want to talk about this again because you opened this can of worms, not me.
Getting rid of Bates this season just seems like an unnecessary risk. We have no one behind him or Bell. We also are missing a starting CB so with that up in the air letting him go would be dangerous - we have no idea what value a trade could bring.
Losing Bates is a million times riskier than losing Boyd - as mentioned above we have no one else. We can survive with Trent Taylor if our oline is excellent and upgrades at slot are available in the draft. WR3/4 and RB have more available players than other position in football.
I do agree that Bates is not elite. Can he be? Possibly. Do I care this season? Not really, Im more concerned over creating a hole at that spot much more than the 4th option on offense.
Does letting Bates go create more cap space? Cut yes, trade for a draft pick - yes/for a player - obviously not as much.
Lets do this which of these puts less pressure on the team:
A very good OT or OG or C instead of Boyd - all day, every day, easy spot to replace with a much improved oline
A very good OT or OG or C instead of Bates - normally yes, but we have no one to replace him and it is much more difficult
To me there is no comparison. Bates is way more vital to the defense this season. Replacing him would be much more up in the air as he has so much more responsibilities. WR3 could be anyone and. I would take a great olineman over that position every single time.
Having a really good free safety on a team with average CBs is just common sense. A top tier CB like JC not only is a huge cap hit but also the guaranteed money is insane, way more than a free safety. People keep forgetting this aspect.
If we had some depth behind Bates, I could get more on board, maybe we draft a stud safety and do this next year? Im cool with that, too risky this season (unless we knew we could get a Maye or some other vet at a very low price) and Boyd is at max trade value now with little risk assuming his salary went to upgrade the oline.
