04-20-2022, 12:46 PM
(04-20-2022, 11:35 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: In 2019 and 2020 when Karras played center he had a PFF grade in the 60s which was about the same grade as Hopkins. When New England moved him to guard in 2021 he had a PFF of 72.8. He has played guard much better than center. As a center he has been on par with Hopkins. The Bengals really should move Karras to LG and sign Tretter. This way the line would be greatly improved. You have Karras at LG with Carman backing him up, you have a great center like Tretter with the option of moving Karras back to that spot in case of an injury. That line would be really good with adding just one more guy to the team.
If the Bengals go with the current planned line, you have a guy that plays center on par with the guy you just got rid of (Hopkins). You also have a LG with serious question marks including back issues. As of right now the Bengals have only improved two O-line positions, RG and RT. That will certainly help but with 70 sacks given up last season, RG and RT were not the only issues on the O-line. Burrow will be sacked less this year but I would be willing to bet if the Bengals dont make more adjustment to the O-line, the O-line still ends up in the bottom half of protecting the QB and sacks allowed.
This is what I was getting at with people speaking of how much better Karras was at Guard then Center but you cannot put
all your stock in PFF either man. I agree that I think it would be a better option to bring in Tretter after the Draft, same with
Spain so we have much more competition if we don't Draft any OL somewhat early. Karras is much better than Hop at C and
at Guard, I don't care what anyone says, about the same in pass protection but MUCH better in run blocking.
(04-20-2022, 11:45 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Perhaps this is pedantic, but I have a hard time looking at a C grade of 65 and a G grade of 72 and coming to the conclusion that he played "much better" at G than C. Even if we assume that PFF grades are infallible, that's not a huge difference. This is how some false narratives end up getting thrown around about Karras being a significantly better guard than he was a center. He was marginally better at G than he was at C and when I watched the tape on him, I didn't really see this marginal difference. He was good at both. Going back to PFF grades, Hopkins had quite the poor grade last season. When Hopkins was grading in the 60's, everyone was quite happy with him.
Who knows, maybe the Bengals will sign Tretter and kick Karras over to LG. Or, maybe they keep him at C and re-sign Spain to compete at LG. Both of these options are good solutions. We'll see after the draft what they want to do.
Nice post KillerGoose. Completely agree, that isn't a huge difference. Karras played well at both positions.
We will see what we do after the Draft.
(04-20-2022, 11:54 AM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: So Carman won't have much competition. I predict this won't go well if this is the plan. He was a reach at where he was picked in the second round anyway so the high pick excuse thing is lame. Even if Carman works out as a starter which is maybe a 10% chance in my opinion, we will regret not adding any talented O-Line depth.
I am higher on Carman than you that is for sure but I do agree that we need as much competition with Carman as possible
with his back issues. I think Carman was picked where he should of been if the back wasn't a problem but it was a problem
and even the biggest Carman backer like me has to acknowledge this and just want the best player playing at LG.
Whether it is Karras or Carman or a Draft pick or D'Ante Smith, I honestly don't care. But competition will sift out the best.
(04-20-2022, 12:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Of course the coaches would say that, those are the guys they have right now. It's not like they're going to come out and say "We see the position we're in with our OL depth, and are intensely studying the upcoming draft prospects to find immediate upgrades from those guys".
True.
(04-20-2022, 12:24 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Ive never been happy with Hopkins at center. I am one of those fans that for the last few years have been pointing out how bad the Oline has been when many people have ignored the problems and have claimed the Oline is ok when it should have been clear to everyone the Oline was pretty bad. The Oline was not ok last year or the year before that or the year before that. Hopkins didnt just have a PFF grade like that last season. His PFF grades were about the same the year before.
As far as Spain, if you resign him you have the same guy at LG who posted a 46 PFF for the playoffs including something like a 25 PFF for the Super Bowl. The Bengals need better production than that at the LG position. I think everyone expects the Bengals to make it to the playoffs again this season. Is that the type of play you want want to have from your LG in post season?
You put a lot of stock in PFF, much more than me. Spain was injured and that is when he played poorly
(04-20-2022, 12:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Context is important here, in my opinion. Spain was playing hurt and was carted off the field at the end of the season. I don't think it is a coincidence that his play was strong all season until after he was carted off.
This.
