01-23-2023, 01:19 PM
(01-23-2023, 10:57 AM)Tomkat Wrote: This is not sour grapes, I'm genuinely curious.
Can someone find in the rule book exactly what a catch is?
The only reason I ask is because in a game (last week? - I can't remember exactly) a receiver made a catch along the sideline, got THREE feet (steps) inbounds, then was hit and lost control once he hit the ground. The rules guy (Gene Steratore?) said that at that point, the ground was no longer a factor, because of the three steps. There may have been something about a "football move" but I'm not 100% certain.
Anyhow... AT WHAT POINT does the ground (or a defender knocking the ball loose) no longer matter? Is it 3 steps... 4.... 5?
Are the rules different for sideline vs end zone?
For what it's worth, I can totally understand why the call was overturned - as both of Chase's hands were off the ball at one point.
My question is... at what point should that no longer matter?
First off, the Chase play was OBVIOUSLY not a catch. That play is not controversial at all. It was hard to see in real time, but once I saw a replay, I knew that was incomplete.
Still it is a good question, and the answer is tricky. For one, it depends on where the receiver is. The Chase play at midfield is a catch. It never hits the ground. But going out of bounds? Nope.
My understanding is there are 2-3 factors at play on an out of bounds play.
First is what I call the fumble determination, but rules guys will call a determination of possession. Does the receiver demonstate possession (control) of the ball, get two feet in bounds, BEFORE being contacted by a defender. If he does, nothing that happens after he hits the ground, or the defender dislodging the ball as they go to ground is going to matter. If he does not, then he has to maintain control of the ball through contact & hitting the ground.
Now, that sounds straightforward, but what the hell does it mean? I like to think of it like a funble determination in bounds. If it is an incompete pass inbounds, then it is obviously incomplete going out of bounds. If it is a fumble or down by contact, then it is a TD. Again, that still does not give you a formulaic determination, and you won't get one. It is a subjective call, not an objective one.
Usually I'd say the third foot down would be good, but the football move thing cones into it. Going OOB is a bit different. The ball can move some if the receiver still has control. When is that too much and really a bobble? Subjective. Same thing when/if the ball hits the ground. It can move some, but only if the receiver has control of it the whole time.
Chase loses it twice. He catches it clean and gets two feet down as Milano contacts him/he is going to ground. No way was that 3/football move. He needs to maintain control through hitting the ground. And he does not. Milano knocks it free as they are going OOB. The ball moves for certain. In ky mind the pass is incomplete there because Chase would then need 2 feet again, but it is close. The ball moves, clearly. However, if he'd have maintained control through the ground it might have been enough to stand a challenge with the original TD call as a ball shift with control. But he doesn't. He looses it completely and the ball is on his stomach as they slide OOB. Neither hand on the ball. No way that stands.
Even Chase did not think it was a catch. Listen to what he said postgame.
