Tom Brady and Andy Dalton against Texans

[Shake n Blake]

(01-25-2017, 11:21 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: 1. Ok turnabout is fair play...
Post thike this make people look unrealistic and desperate to give undue adulation, they devalue your more credible post. 

2. Here is more accurate article written at the end of the season by an actual organization that focuses on NFL strictly rather than pulling info from the AP (like Yahoo). BTW it was Newton & Palmer who battled it out for MVP as you can see. 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000612792/article/cam-newton-carson-palmer-top-list-of-mvp-candidates

3. I used the term "also ran" because if you are not in the serious part of the discussion you are not really in the discussion. You act as if there is not this type of labeling...look to the bottom of the list...there is the top 10 (including Andy...so kudos for that) then there are the "Honorable Mention"...same meaning different term. 

4. So to your question, Yes they throw in a bunch of names to keep fans interested in it. So people can say "my guy was a MVP candidate" sound familiar? They start the honorable mention/aslo rans at #11 it really starts wherever the relevant race for MVP ends. 

5. I'm not sr why you and others are so sensitive to the facts about Dalton being a mid-tier QB. I can explain why I am so sensitive to comments saying he is a Top Tier QB who can take a team with holes in it to a Super Bowl. Because he can't and he works for an organization that will always have a team with holes in it...including coaching holes. 

6. He not a better QB than Anderson, Boomer or Palmer and those guys could not do it. Dalton has had the most complete team for the longest time of any of those mentioned and has not even been relevant in the playoffs. All of those QB's (Dalton included) could win the Super Bowl on many of the Pats or Steelers squads of the past...that is not the point. The point is Dalton needs a better surrounding cast than any of those QB's or any of the Current TOP 5-6 playing today. The organization will not give him that surrounding cast...they never have and never will. 

7.  a major disconnect for any of us is what our standards are. I think the most ardent Dalton supporters would say he consistently falls in a range from #7-25. I think the most critical of Dalton posters would say he consistently falls in the range from #7-25. The argument stems from what do you call mid-tier....only here is mid-tier precisely #16...lol!

Andy is not in the Top 20%....he is not in the Bottom 20%...he is in the middle 60%. He is mid-tier period. He does not possess the physical skills or the leadership skills to advance a team deep into the playoffs with holes and subpar coaching. I know this because he has not done it and until he does my statement is fact and anything to the contrary is hope. 

8. ember this all started because the OP made an insinuation that Dalton=Brady. One that he and everyone who agreed with him have since backed off of or have deflected the discussion a different direction. 

9.respect your position but feel it is flawed by the heart of a loyal fan. 

1. Who is being more realistic? The one claiming that the guy listed as a top 5 MVP candidate was an MVP candidate? Or the guy bending over backwards to explain why unworthy players were listed? Let me ask you this: What if Russell Wilson went 4-0 with 1500 yards and 15 TDs over those last 4 games? You don't feel he would've had a shot? That's all I'm saying. Dalton was being recognized for a fine season and was within striking distance of the MVP award. I'm not wrong.

2. How is an end of season article more accurate? Dalton obviously took a tumble because he missed 4 games. The more accurate article would be the one from before Dalton got injured.

3. The problem with this logic is that Dalton was rarely if ever mentioned in the "honorable mention" or 10th or worse...prior to injury. Now I see why you picked an article from after his injury.

4. I could follow your logic that "writers just threw in a bunch of names" if Dalton was ranked like 11th. He was top 5 on most lists prior to injury.

5. I'm not sensitive to anything. I actually agree with this statement lol.

6. I view Dalton as equal - if not better - than Palmer. With better coaching, I think he'd compete with Boomer and Kenny for best QB in franchise history. I refuse to blame any QB/player on this team for playoff performance while Marvin Lewis is the HC. I've actually sat and tried to see things from y'all's point of view (that Dalton is simply a choker) and I just can't bring myself to blame Dalton when 3 other QBs and the entire damn team has choked 7 times under Marv. Can't logically do it, sorry.

7. Lol...BINGO. I wholeheartedly agree that Dalton belongs in the middle 60%...not the top or bottom 20%. If you define "mid-tier" that way, I agree. There are many good-not-great QB's who would fall in that 60% though. Stafford, Flacco, Luck and Alex Smith for example.

8. I sincerely don't believe the OP was straight up saying Dalton = Brady. Yall are twisting his post to an extreme to make one side look bad. Tsk tsk. This is why we can't have good conversations on here anymore.

9. If I say one thing you believe, then believe this: I am not a damn homer. In fact, I was always considered a hater until I started sticking up for the red head. I think Marvin Lewis is a weak coach that can't get his men prepared in the playoffs to save his life. I believe his conservative fingers have been all over the offense, particularly in the playoffs. I look at Andy and I just see yet another guy that's played well in the regular season only to mysteriously choke in postseason. Under Marv, it's a long list. So this is not about Andy love for me...it's about how much I think Marv sucks and I refuse to deflect blame from him.