Tom Brady and Andy Dalton against Texans

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(01-26-2017, 01:51 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Point is well taken. Frustration seems to be par for the course for us Bengals fans!

I guess my push back is more against the ownership than the QB. I think Andy is (as stated before) not in the TOP 20% or in the bottom 20%. He is good but I think he (like all the 60% middle tier guys) needs help. Grated some of that mid-tier group needs more help than others but they all need help. They will not be the reason a good team is horrible but they probably can not carry a good to to greatness. 

Andy and Carson both could not overcome the shortcoming of this organization to win a playoff game. Kenny and Boomer came close to the brass ring and that window slammed closed very quickly on both of them. They too could not overcome the shortcomings of this organization. 

As you stated I am as frustrated as any fan here. My frustration is magnified when I see great fans drinking the MB kool aid. Andy will have a very very very difficult time winning a championship here. I do not think he posses the same skill set as Carson or Boomer and they could not do it.  I think he and Kenny are very similar, I do not think Kenny would be a Top 20% guy in today's NFL either as it is totally different now. 

When fans are absolutely unrealistic about Andy's ability it just feeds in the the cycle of craziness. They are several posters  that would bet their bottom dollar that Andy is capable of being the Best QB in the league or even in the TOP 20%....that is so nutty it is laughable. 

He lacks the physical tools and the leadership skills to be "that guy". The physical tools are easy to identify...he does not have a big time arm and can not take the lid off the defense. He struggles with deep out routes to the far side of the field and has a range of about 60yards max in the air...this is not debatable. However that is not to say he can not complete a long pass he. He runs well but is not dominant in that area. He is among the top guys of intermediate accuracy and has a great football IQ. Andy is two skillsets away from being a 5 tool guy. 

 Leadership skills are a bit more difficult to identify but here is my reason for saying he lacks in that department. Certain QB's have that swag. They run the Offense...if they don't like the play they change it....not change it to what the OC said they can. They have friction with the OC if the game plan sucks, they push back against the HC and the ownership if the culture is broken, they grab a WR or a OL by the facemask and demand they get their shit straight. When they have done all they can they are not afraid to draw a line in the sand. That is leadership...not giving a pep-talk.

Sorry if it seems like I am on the attack on you or any poster for being a fan of our QB. It is displaced frustration of the organization. I also know that Andy like our other QB's has been dealt a bad deal by being here. He will never shed the Bunguled stigma. Boomer could not do it, Carson has not done it. Those two guys did great things with different organization after leaving here but could not shake the Stink of MB.

Don't apologize for having a different opinion!  I just think the frustration that is directed at Dalton in misplaced.  Your point about Boomer and Anderson is interesting...having each come within a hair of winning it all.  Those teams were loaded with talent, but the one thing they had that this team sorely lacks is innovation.

Those offenses were cutting edge.  Sam Wyche took an already innovative offense and took it to the next level.  The no-huddle?  Do you know how many people still think Buffalo created that?  

What type of innovation has this team shown?  The closest thing I would offer was Aaron Rogers tipping his hat at Zimmer for his double-A gap blitzing scheme.  No one has seen anything creative from the offense.  The closest thing was some wacky spread formation where it yielded ONE big play to Eifert down the seam.  One, in several years. 

The way the rest of the league is using two and three TE sets (especially in the red zone) and rub routes with crossing patterns (a steeler staple) yet the Bengals continue to operate in such a yestertech offense.  

Dalton was on pace for an incredible 2015 with Hue's offense, which I thought was "good enough".  Then, Cleveland stepped in and (wisely) didn't let Hue leave without signing with them.  Despite the "succession plan", Hue didn't wait and took that job.  And the Bengals offense suffered because of it.