03-05-2017, 05:06 PM
(03-05-2017, 03:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: O-line play was very poor last year. The best two players on that line are free agents. Even some one like me who generally defends Alexander's coaching ability has to be extremely concerned with the O-line for '17.
People talk a lot about Palmer's injuries and Bratkowski getting stale, but by far the single biggest reason for the decline of the '05 Bengals was the loss of the O-line. Every single starter on that line was set to become a free agent within 2 years. the Bengals stepped up big and paid 4 of the five very well. I believe that Willie and Levi were the highest paid starting tackles in the league. the only guy they let go was Steinbach. Eric was a damn good player, but at that time the contract he got from the Browns made him the second highest paid OG in the NFL. The Bengal just could not pay them all. But if Anderson, Jones, and Braham don't all suffer career altering injuries in '06-'07, the Bengals would have plugged in Whit at LG and not missed a beat. Funny how people who bash PA never give him credit for finding a franchise LT like Whitworth late in the second round.
But after using a second round pick on Whit in '06 the Bengal did almost nothing to address the crumbling O-line in the draft. Over the next 5 years they used only one pick higher than the fourth round on an offensive lineman. That was Andre Smith in '09 and his first two seasons were marred by injuries. In the 8 year span from '04 through the Bengals only used 2 picks higher than the fourth round on O-line. Alexander was forced to re-build most of the line with mid to late round draft picks and undrafted free agents.
My take on Alexander is that he is highly regarded as far as teaching pass protection. The record seems to bear that out. You all know my arguments about that by now. But except for that one freak performance in Jeremy Hill's rookie season our run game has suffered for years. And despite the fact that Marvin likes to run the ball the NFL has become a passing league. teams have to take advantage of the rule changes. So I guess they value Alexander's pass protection advantage more than they worry about our weak running game.
Here is my take on the current situation....
Ogbuehi was shockingly bad, but I am not willing to write him off yet. He has missed bot training camps, and once the season starts most of the work is in classrooms and walk-throughs. They want to save the players' bodies for Sunday so there are not a lot of full speed reps during the week. And since Og often looked pretty slow for a guy who is supposed to be so quick I think his slowness is due to reaction time instead of slow feet. He obviously needs to get bigger and stronger, but that should have happened after his rookie year. Hopefully getting tossed around a bit will embarrass him into really hitting the weights. But again, getting tossed aside is often the result of being out off balance or lunging due to being out of position. BUT even though I have hope that Cedric has a break out year there is no way in hell we should go into next season counting on him starting at LT. We have to either re-sign Whit, use a first or second round pick, or sign at least a mid tier free agent to play LT. And LTs are so expensive in free agency that even the mid tier guys are expensive.
Fisher starts somewhere. Either RT or LG. They had him playing everywhere as a rookie. I actually think that stunted his development. I think he will turn out to be a decent starter.
Zeitler could be gone. But no way we let both Whit and Zeitler walk. That would be scary.
Bodine will probably be our starter again, but I bet we use a 3rd or 4th round pick on a center to groom as his replacement. People act like we have stuck with a bunch of bums at Center for years, but that just is not true. Again I will not how people who hate on PA never give him credit for making a good starter out of a guy like Braham who had been cut by the Cards. Eric Ghiaciuc was not very good but we only went into two season with him as our opening day starter ('07-'08). Kyle Cook was an undrafted free agent who PA turned into a very good center. Cook only allowed 4 sacks in his first 48 starts ('09-'11) and was considered one of the top centers in the league by Pat Kirwan and other experts, but Cook was inured in '12. He played very poorly in '13 and the Bengals released him while still under contract. I was not surprised when he struggled as a rookie starter. If he had been good enough to start as a rookie he would not have lasted to the fourth round. But he has not improved enough. Bengals will probably not use a first or second round pick on a center, but look for one in the third or fourth round to possibly start in '18 when Bodine's rookie deal is up.
Boling is soid.
RT could be a mid tier free agent. Something a step higher then Winston, but nothing too expensive or long term. I think they still hope that both Fisher and Og will be be starters. They might even use a 2nd or third round pick on a RT or G. LT is a first round position, but you can still find some good RT/OG types in the 2nd-3rd.
I will give you some props for a well thought out post Fred. We agree that we definately have to bring back Whit
and we need to add atleast 2 more O-lineman, one in FA and atleast one in the Draft. I am still hoping we draft a
Center in the 2nd round and trade AJM for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. This would help a lot.
I disagree with a few things you say here though. Fisher won't be playing LG, that is Boling's spot who i truly
believe is better than Zeitler right now. Boling is much more athletic and is a better run blocker that can pull. As
much as it pains me to admit, PA actually has done well with Boling and Whitworth. Don't know why he failed so
miserably with Ogbuehi (injuries have to be some of it). Still, starting the guy that long was beyond stupid.
Mangold sure looks like a fit for atleast some competition. We will see on this one. If we went with a FA Center i
would rather have Wisnewski but Mangold could be an upgrade of Bodine. Still would draft a Center for the future
in the 2nd or 3rd round like you said and a raw, talented LT for the future.
