Fredtoast take on the O-line issue

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-05-2017, 04:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: First, let me say that what you wrote was a very good observation and interpretation of the OL situation.  You'd be hard pressed to find many of the regulars on here that would disagree with your analysis.

There is one thing that you mentioned, that I would like to discuss a bit further.  That item being the tendency for Paul Alexander to select linemen based upon their pass blocking skills, with less emphasis on run blocking ability.  I am of the philosophy that pass blocking, particularly for interior OL, is a technique that can be taught.  On the other hand, linemen that are good run blockers seem to be able to do that as an extension of their personality.  In my way of thinking, run blocking ability is more a product of having natural aggression, along with the latent desire to dominate the man in front of them, and force him to submit to one's will.

We have seen this team's OL, over the past stretch of winning seasons, look very good in protecting the QB.  However, in critical situations, struggle to gain 3rd and short via the run.  Many of this team's best runs seem to come by running when a pass is expected, or by a tremendous individual effort by the ball carrier.  Many times, even on say 2nd and medium distance to go, they seem unable to generate much of a push from the interior 3 of the OL.  Now, these are just my very general observations.  I'm certain that most anyone could go through game films and find plenty of examples that show contrary to my opinion, but I'm talking more the "big game" situations, against higher quality teams.

So, I guess my point is to ask you if you feel like a change in drafting philosophy might be in order?  I understand that you are generally a proponent of Paul Alexander.  Would you think that he is too set in his own philosophy to realize that a change in strategy might be in order?

I agree 100%.  I even had to rep you fred....lol.  All jokes aside, I am very close to sharing the same opinions as fred here, save for a few subtle differences.  With the exception of one or two here and there, Alexander can't seem to coach up fringe talent.  I know I rip him pretty good, but aside from hyperbole to drill home my thoughts on the guy, I see him as extremely overrated, but not terrible.  

I think maybe the game has passed him by, and I am almost certain he is too damn stubborn and egotistical to adapt.  In fairness to Paul, that appears to be a hallmark of this whole damn organization.....which is very frustrating when I feel we were at the cusp.  Not only do I feel he is too set in his own philosophy, I think he is too set in his pet projects to move on from them when he should.  Blodine should have already been replaced, and bust or not, he stuck with Og WAY too long last season.  I also don't understand why he rushed to the defense of the worst rated center in the league, but then tried to talk tough about the benching of Ogbuehi.

Something to ponder.....two of the worst rated players at their position in the entire league have come under Alexander's tutelege, and were both lobbied for hard by Paul himself.  That's pretty frightening.

Also, from a pure accountability standpoint, NO WAY should ANY coach from Dave Shula's staff still have a job here.  How can you preach accountability to players when a coach that was a part of the 2nd worst decade in all of professional sports history is STILL HERE?

I also agree with your mindset regarding the run game.  Interesting observation.

(03-05-2017, 09:00 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I agree with most of what Fred is saying.

I have to say something though.

If Marvin and Paul Alexander roll with the same exact line(or less Whit/Z)and it is again an absolute crapfest...

That's it Fred.  It's over.  No more propping either one of them up.

Look...  I don't want them to fail.  I will have just about had it with the two of them if that occurs.

If pure ego tries to force square pegs into round holes, then we know exactly who we are dealing with.

Absolutely Rocker.....in an ever changing league, there is no place for stubborness to adaptation....especially when it stems from ego.

(03-05-2017, 09:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree with almost everything you say Fred, but your post makes me wonder...why do you rip people for wanting PA replaced? Why were you ripping me for saying that Bodine should be gone but likely won't be (now you're saying the same thing)?

Also, despite the fact that it's more of a passing league these days, the run game is still massively important. Especially for a team like ours, which is more balanced than say...New Orleans or Green Bay. Also, PA's unit has been one of the worst in the playoffs. We've never been able to dominate a game on the ground (outside of Benson going nuclear against the Jets), and the pass blocking suddenly is terrible.

It's worth noting, if memory serves, we had to run a lot of unbalanced sets to provide lanes for Benson.  Of course, I was there, and that was certainly bourbon weather....the memory may be a touch hazy. 

(03-05-2017, 10:12 PM)Joelist Wrote: Lest we forget having Andy's super quick release (depending on the season either fastest or second fastest in the league) has made our line look better in pass protection than it really is. We saw this effect when he got hurt in 2015 and the slower release McCarron got clobbered.

I agree.  I think watching McCarron get nailed kinda proved that theory to at least have some credence.

(03-06-2017, 12:37 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I get what you're saying and I agree with you.  Pete Koch was a prime example of that.  It just seems like pa likes to take this type of guy.  He doesn't seem able to coach it into functional strength 

....nor be able to move on from them when it's time it seems....

(03-06-2017, 12:52 AM)Joelist Wrote: A big part of the issues goes back to our refusal to invest in a blue chipper at Center. Instead we draft clowns like Ghiacuc and Bodine or take fliers on players like Kyle Cook. Cook showed flashes before he got hurt but Ghiacuc was the worst center in football and so is Bodine. Should I mention who it was that lobbied hard for both Ghiacuc and Bodine?

....and Ogbuehi.