So the big elephant in the room....

[Hoofhearted]

(09-13-2017, 01:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think Marv's ability to "build a winner" is a bit overstated. He's a .500 coach. People praise the 5 straight playoff appearances and forget that he also coached these teams:

2003: 8-8
2004: 8-8
2006: 8-8
2007: 7-9
2008: 4-11-1
2010: 4-12
2016: 6-9-1


2017 is also shaping up to be a bad year. Marv inherited much of the talent from the 1st core. Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Rudi Johnson, Willie Anderson, Rich Braham, Levi Jones, Justin Smith, Brian Simmons, etc. He also inherited the #1 overall pick, where Palmer was a no-brainer. So that entire core was inherited. Most agree that he underachieved with that group, and ultimately it fell apart when guys got paid.

Seeing how Duke Tobin was there when all those players were drafted, maybe we're giving the wrong man credit for building 2 "winners"? Especially when Marv wasn't even there when the 1st core was drafted?

yeah, probably. but we're trying to determine if Marv "belongs", right? (belongs as a head coach in the NFL)

Would you say Harbuagh is a better coach than Marv? I would say so; he's won a Super bowl, right? Well, he also has a .590 win %; Ron Riviera, Jason Garret, Jim Caldwell, Bill O'brien and Mike Zimmer also have roughly .500 records albeit most don't have time in service Marv does. Those are just a few I checked into. 

Ron has had 4 losing seasons so far in his career.
Harbaugh has had two .500 season and one losing season.
Garret had three .500 season and one losing one.
Caldwell had two losing seasons
Zimmer had a losing season and a .500 season so far
O'brien is steady eddy at 9-7 every year. 

Guess point is, give quite a bit of these coaches the length of leash Marv has had, I am pretty sure they will fall into a clunker or two. Clearly Marv isn't as good as most of these guys, but they are also prone to being bad from time to time. 

And the who deserves credit for the building of  the two winners is moot IMO. It's something that's done by the entire staff, not just Tobin. So they all deserve similar credit and/or blame.