So the big elephant in the room....

[Shake n Blake]

(09-13-2017, 02:22 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: yeah, probably. but we're trying to determine if Marv "belongs", right? (belongs as a head coach in the NFL)

Would you say Harbuagh is a better coach than Marv? I would say so; he's won a Super bowl, right? Well, he also has a .590 win %; Ron Riviera, Jason Garret, Jim Caldwell, Bill O'brien and Mike Zimmer also have roughly .500 records albeit most don't have time in service Marv does. Those are just a few I checked into. 

Ron has had 4 losing seasons so far in his career.
Harbaugh has had two .500 season and one losing season.
Garret had three .500 season and one losing one.
Caldwell had two losing seasons
Zimmer had a losing season and a .500 season so far
O'brien is steady eddy at 9-7 every year. 

Guess point is, give quite a bit of these coaches the length of leash Marv has had, I am pretty sure they will fall into a clunker or two. Clearly Marv isn't as good as most of these guys, but they are also prone to being bad from time to time. 

And the who deserves credit for the building of  the two winners is moot IMO. It's something that's done by the entire staff, not just Tobin. So they all deserve similar credit and/or blame. 

I'm not really big on O'Brien, Garrett or Zimmer personally. As for the other guys, it's not hard to figure out. Regular season mediocrity becomes more acceptable when you achieved the ultimate goal or you've come close. John Harbaugh has a ring (fyi, .590 comes out to almost 1.5 more wins per season, so it's a bigger difference than you think). Riviera and Caldwell have taken teams to the biggest stage there is.

Give these coaches less length than Marv and they also ran into super bowls. Marv has had all the leash in the world and has only managed to run into a wall. Or a screen door. Or a stop sign.

And no, who built the team is not moot. Marv didn't build the first team, you'll admit that, correct? Now if Tobin got here at the end of the 90's and immediately started collecting talent without Marv, why are you stretching to give him credit for this last group of talent?  Would it not make more sense that the builder of the 1st core was most responsible for also building the 2nd? Or do we just want to give Marv credit for something that can't be proven because he can't stand on what can?

(09-13-2017, 03:26 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: The question becomes:  Who replaces him?  If you go Guenther or Simmons, is there enough change?

Guenther would be the obvious in house candidate, but I'd definutely clean house on offense, and I'd rather keep Guenther right where he's at and hire a hot name Offensive Coordinator. 

(09-13-2017, 03:27 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know he is a complete kook, but I would take Jim Harbaugh.  I think he actually WOULD leave Michigan for the chance to coach in the NFL again and in a division against his brother.  

I absolutely love that guy as a coach.  Crazy, yes, but an amazing coach. 

I believe he was talking about John Harbaugh, but I love both the brothers. They're great coaches.

(09-13-2017, 07:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: LOL...wrong. One did.

I underestimated them. Clearly.