Some Fans Need an Eye Exam

[Shake n Blake]

(11-03-2017, 01:38 PM)BMK Wrote: I honestly believe that Dalton is a good quarterback that under the right circumstances could be very good. I think if he was the type of leader that naturally motivates and raises the level of those around him, a hallmark of all good leaders,  he could be exceptional. He doesn't lack football skills, he lacks leadership skills and I believe to a degree, the whole team suffers for it.

In a way I agree, but this is more of a Bengals culture issue...not a Dalton exclusive issue. Think about the type of players the Bengals draft: Dalton, Gio, AJ Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Leon Hall, Joseph, Whitworth, Eifert...all good players and hard workers...but not a rah-rah guy among them. 

They also tend to discourage players from speaking out in any way. I can't remember many specifics, but I do remember guys like Hill and Burfict getting smacked down by Marv (or Hue) for showing fire verbally. Isn't that a leadership trait? Marv is always preaching about guys taking a leadership role, when (a) he himself is a poor leader and (b) they seemingly discourage any form of aggressive leadership. 

So the problem is two-fold. They draft these quiet lunch-pail guys, ask them to step up and be vocal leaders, then seem to discourage it when they actually do try. Why this is, idk, but it could have to do with our leaders in the past speaking out against Mike Brown. Maybe that's why they target the quiet (and loyal) guys in the draft. Could also be yet another reason they avoid FA.

(11-03-2017, 04:47 PM)BMK Wrote: I was saying you forgot about AJ's frustration and rant after the Houston game about him not getting the ball. AJ is by far my favorite player, and I'm sure he has the utmost respect and admiration for Andy.  But, lets not lose sight of the fact that presently, AJ depends very much on Dalton for him to be successful. What do you think he's going to say?  I was also saying that if AJ felt he had to say what he said this week, he pretty much made my point. You'd think that would already be understood and accepted by the team and not need publicly stated. 

That wasn't aimed at Andy, that was aimed at Zampese. Considering that Green led the mutiny against Zampese and has also called out the o-line (both could affect Green's success as much as Dalton) I don't see why Green wouldn't call out Dalton if he supposedly hated him. I think it's time we all admit that AJ most certainly seems to be an Andy fan. He's gone completely out of his way to repeatedly promote his guy, and they're friends off the field.

(11-04-2017, 09:18 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: A common theme I’ve read (& heard just the other day from the guy filling in for Mo on ESPN radio), is that ‘Andy needs everything to be perfect around him to succeed’.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

His surroundings have never been perfect. Some aspect of the offense has consistently been deficient, whether it’s a lack of a second reciever, no running game, or poor blocking. There has always been a glaring weakness in the offense.

Andy is a fine QB. I’ve been comfortable/confident with him in many games where he needs to score to win (4th comebacks). Guess what? He’s lead his team down the field often for the go ahead/winning score.

I’m confident they’ll beat Jacksonville. I’m confident it will be largely due to Andy playing well and/or making the plays that need to be made.

Amen to that. He's had a bad run game for almost his entire tenure (sans 2014 - when he saw a glut of injuries at receiver), he's very rarely had a quality #2 WR, Eifert has mostly been injured, AJ Green himself has missed 10 games in 2014 and 2016 combined, our o-line has been a train wreck for 2 years now, and Dalton has produced solid numbers through all of it.

(11-04-2017, 10:12 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well we've had a good pass-blocking OLine, and an average run game, and AJ Green and Eifert...which is better than 80% of the league...but you have to look at the hidden things. Organizational culture. It's going to be hard for any QB to come in and win here.

Many philosophical reasons - not valuing Centers and Guards. Letting free agents go for Comp picks. History - When you don't win a playoff win for 26 years...you EXPECT to lose.

A new coach has probably 3-4 years to come in and change the culture. Beyond that...he just becomes part of the existing losing cultural timeline. Marvin IS now a big part of the 26+ year playoff drought.

People say IF Aaron Rodgers were here we'd win. Yes - IF current Packers incarnation of Rodgers was here, we'd win...but IF the Bengals drafted him...he likely wouldn't have turned out as good. That's the hidden.

Great post. I don't think Dalton will ever win with the organization. I'd love to see him go elsewhere at this point. 

I'll just put it this way: I have more faith in Andy's ability to win playoff games elsewhere than I have faith that the Bengals organization will ever get it together.