12-23-2019, 02:33 AM
(12-23-2019, 12:28 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You try to put Dalton in the same category as HOF QB's. BTW Palmer actually won one!! Your turn.
No, as I said, right there in the text that you yourself quoted, I don't think Dalton's a great QB. So clearly I'm not "putting him in the same category as HOF QB's" at least not in the context of his overall body of work. In regards to them all having 11 loss seasons on their resumes? Then yeah, Dalton absolutely 100% has that in common with the HOF QB's and former Bengals starters that I listed, that's just an indisputable fact whether you like it or not.
I specifically used HOF QB's (and our other 3 "successful" long-time starters) to definitively illustrate the fact that your original premise (that QB's that lose 11 games in a season aren't really QB's) was flawed. You see...if I came out and said "Well what about Matt Stafford? He's an OK QB and has lost more than 11 games in a season" that doesn't really hammer home the point now, does it? If anything, all that'd do would be to open things up to a debate over the overall merits of Matt Stafford as a QB. By using HOF players who no one in their right mind would suggest wasn't good at playing their position, I demonstrated that your original position was fundamentally flawed. You see, that's how forming a counter-argument works. At no point was I saying Dalton was a HOF caliber QB, I was saying that HOF QB's have had 11 loss seasons and thus saying that "any QB that loses 11 games in a season isn't really a QB" is a stupid statement to make.
And re: Palmer? Yes, he did win one...in his 13th season as I noted previously. Since in the context of your previous post that Dalton hadn't won any in 9 years, I felt it important to point out that it took Palmer 3 teams and 13 years before he finally won a playoff game himself.
But, since you also seem to think that simply winning a playoff game is also an indicator of if someone's a decent QB or not; I can name one HOF QB, who never so much as played in a single playoff game in their entire career, and another that never won one. Sonny Jurgensen never played in a playoff game. Now sure, his last year as a starter was the first year that the divisional rounds even existed, but the playoffs existed and he never led the Eagles or Washington to the playoffs or a championship once. And Y.A. Tittle never won a playoff game in his career, he was 0-5. If, by your flawed analytical system, you're somehow suggesting that T.J. Yates, Matt Schaub or even Bernie Kosar are better QB's than those two because they've won a playoff game, then you're nuts. Also, for a more contemporary example, the aforementioned Matt Stafford has both lost 11 or more games in a season (12 in 2012) and never won a playoff game (0-3) in his 11 year career and he's, as I said before, a solid QB.
My initial post, and subsequent replies to you, have never been about Dalton. You're the one fixated on Dalton, not me. It was purely about pointing out the massive flaws in your now two, completely arbitrary, standards for assessing the capabilities of a QB.
You're up.
