10-15-2015, 02:24 PM
(10-15-2015, 02:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Brother I'm probably the most honest guy on here. Mainly because I don't give 2 shits what anyone thinks about my opinion, and I'm not trying super-hard to promote some image of me being "objective". The boards have always been very split on Gresham, otherwise all Gresham threads would've died off quickly once people realized it was just a big circle jerk of Gresham hate. Instead, most Gresham threads went back and forth much like you and I are now.
I think most Gresham fan-boys were smart enough to see the writing on the wall. Gresh was on his way out and Eifert was obviously ascending. That doesn't mean that some wouldn't have preferred to have Gresh here in at least a role similar to 2013. You say people were concerned with the lack of experience at TE......well how would re-signing Gresh help those rookies gain experience?
2. We sort-of agree here. Gresh had talent, but in 5 years, it never translated to the field. He wasn't a top 10 TE, period. Yet I saw several people argue that he was over the last few years. At this point I don't think Gresh is even a top 32 TE considering he's backing up Daniel Fells, a guy who has averaged 6.5 starts and 208 receiving yards over the last 6 seasons. Kinda speaks volumes, doesn't it? Even I thought Gresh would be doing better this. He's healthy enough to play, so I have my doubts on how much his back is a factor. It's not like he shredded his knee. His speed and hands shouldn't be affected.
3. Yes, there's been people that went overboard bashing the guy. Same as Dalton or Maualuga. That does not mean there weren't legit reasons for criticism. Gresh was one of the worst blockers at his position for several years according to PFF. He did work hard and improve in that category. His hands were inconsistent. He fumbled way too much for his position. I think he had lapses with his routes. He was moody and apparently a handful in the locker room. He had some issues with penalties (although I do think this was one issue that was exaggerated).
Honestly I hate calling out names, but there's a lot of regular posters who defended Gresh and/or claimed he was a top 10 TE over the years. There used to be some big debates about it. Although I can see why that debate has lost steam with the seasons that Eifert and Gresh are having right now.
1. You may be honest, but that doesn't mean your analysis is 100% factual and nobody else that disagrees is ever correct about anything. I just really think you're over exaggerating about the amount of people that really slobbered all over Gresham. There may have been a small handful out of the hundreds of regular posters. Threads just need 1 person on the other side to cause an entire back and forth. Hell, look at this board. I've found myself in 5 page discussions with 3 or 4 different people even though I was the only one arguing on my side. That doesn't mean I had a ton of people sharing my opinion just because it was 5 pages worth of arguments and the thread didn't die immediately.
2. He had talent but didn't really translate it all to the field. He did a great job extending the play at times and he was solid but that's about it. I have no problem saying that and not calling him great and whatever else. We agree for the most part here, yes.
3. There are legit reasons for criticism, and this is sort of funny to me. You say that the one thing that has been exaggerated has been the penalties, but I think that's the one thing that is 100% true. I posted the numbers above, he led the league in penalties by TEs for 2 straight years and was top 5 in another and top 10 in another. He was only out of the top 10 in penalties for 1 season of his career. He also did have a handful of fumbles, but it's not like he was losing the ball 10 times compared to others only fumbling 1 or 2. He had 1-3 per season, which I'm not going to say is entirely acceptable, but it's not nearly as bad as some make it seem. His hands are one part that people definitely blow way out of proportion. His drop rate isn't THAT bad, it's just a couple of big drops in big moments got him that reputation and it has stuck with him on Bengals message boards.
4. I understand you not wanting to call out specific names, that's fine. I just think you got into arguments with 2-3 specific people and for some reason you're making it seem like half of a message board was on that side. Most people have been ready to crush Gresham at any moment they can. Not many people would defend him other than a couple of guys that I can think of specifically and then maybe a couple more that defend ANYONE on the team. We can agree to disagree about the amount of people on each side though, that's fine with me.
