QB or the WR which is it ?

[Shake n Blake]

(05-21-2020, 01:34 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, you're accounting for poor QB play in regards to other positions, but it seems you're not doing the same in regards to QB play.

Meaning...

Look at the OL Andy had to work with those 3 seasons.  Could that not help explain why the numbers weren't as good?  At what point during those 3 season did we not have a well below average OL?  I mean, we're talking bottom of the barrel, among the leagues worst over the time span.

What about the loss of AJ Green?  He missed 23 of 48 games (48%) over those 3 seasons.  Could not having your number #1 receiver have something to do with a drop-off in production?

When you're stuck behind a bad OL and you're missing your biggest threat that's going to affect the QB play.
What about the rushinng game?  How much help were they, in taking pressure off of the pass game?

In 2017 we averaged 3.6 yards a carry, and only had 6 rushing TD's.  That's unbelievablely bad.  In 2019 we only averaged 3.9 yards a carry and only had 9 rushing TD's, which is also pretty damn bad.

What about the defense?  What affect does that have on the passing game?  Well, here's our team ranks in total yards allowed over that span...

2019 - 28th
2018 - 32nd
2017 - 17th

Call me crazy, but I would think a defense that is bad is going to put a tremendous amount of pressure on the offense, and as a result the QB.  This leads to a lot of time playing from behind, and being forced to make throws and call plays you may not if you're weren't constantly playing catch-up.

So now we've got a QB in Dalton, whose OL has gone to shit, whose #1 receiving option is often hurt, with a below average run game, and well below average defense... What QB thrives in that envioroment?  Show me a QB that doesn't see a decrease in stats knowing the above.

The fact of the matter is it is a team game.  Every position affects every other position.  You can't just blame one player, or not account for everything that surrounds the situation.

When Andy was surrounded by above average talent he was an above average QB.  When it was below average, he followed suit.  The reality is he did not just magically turn into a terrible QB overnight.  Nor was he suddenly magically among the game's elite in 2015. 

Andy Dalton was a decent and capable starter.  Not great, no. But far from terrible.  As the team became worse and worse his stats became worse and worse.  He has a 9 year career to disect, it's completely unfair to cherry-pick a 3 year window and use it to define his skill level. 

Great post. As Fred said, the true answer is that it goes both ways. A bad QB can drag you down, but a bad team can drag down a QB as well. Or maybe you could say a bad team is just a bad team?  

I think most have agreed that Dalton is somewhere around average as a starter through his career. He's not a top 5 elite guy that's required to drag a bad roster to 10 wins (although even guys like Pig Ben and Brees haven't done that, either). He's also not the reason we went 21-42-1 over the last 4 seasons.

The Bengals allowed the roster to rot around Dalton for 4 years. We had draft busts on the o-line. As you pointed out, Green has missed a ton of time. We did little to nothing in free agency. Our once elite defense fell off a cliff. The run game has been spotty to put it very kindly.

Our highlight addition last year was a tackle who missed the season. What QB (let alone an average one) wins in that situation??

So I suppose if we start winning again in 2020, people will point to the QB. Depending on the season Burrow has, that could be partially correct...but it would be ignoring the off-season we just had. We just spent more money on free agents than we ever did under Dalton. If AJ Green is healthy, the run game improves and the defense makes a jump forward, do we attribute those wins 100% to the QB?

I think some people will, but if we want to try and be fair and reasonable about this, our improvement will likely be due to all of the above. Improved QB play, healthy (and improved) receivers, a huge make-over on defense via free agency, and hopefully improved o-line play. If Dalton were the QB in 2020, I'm positive he'd win way more than 2 games. Burrow - if as advertised - should take us another step beyond that.