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(09-24-2020, 11:44 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I've seen you rip on Lorenzo Neal a couple of times now.  Why exactly do you consider him to be so overrated? 

-Played 16 years in the league (Huge accomplishment in and of itself.  Average players don't play a decade plus)
-4 Time Pro Bowler
-2 Time All Pro
-Member of the 2000's All Decade Team

I just don't see how he can be considered overrated.  Most average fans don't even know who he is, due to his position.  Do you not think he was one of the best fullbacks of his era?  If not, why not?

Also, I've been meaning to ask you this.  I'm generally curious, not trying to call you out or anything like that:

Were you able to watch those older games up in Canada?  I've always wondered how people from outside of the country followed the Bengals before streaming and NFL ticket.

I'm assuming you watched all those late 90's, early 2000's games, because of references like these and Willie Anderson.  Did you guys just use one of those old school dishes that were the size of an above ground pool, that people had back in the day?

Not a problem; I made a very, VERY lengthy post on the mothership back in 2012 or 2011 or something, when people were hyping him up to death. So I took an hour or so out of my time at that point and went through EVERY year of his career, with each team and their running backs. I looked at:

- how they did before Neal was on the team
- how they did after Neal was on the team
- their age
- their team performance
- their offensive line (this was the biggest one, I found)

1. For starters, he played with a bunch of huge names who racked up a ton of yards, as you mentioned; literally every one of those names was a 1,000 yard rusher before Neal came on (save for Dunn, who got 942 as a rookie) and all were 1,000 yard rushers AFTER he left the team as well. In addition to that, the addition of Neal did NOT see a massive spike in YPC or TDs or anything, in any of those name players. Strike one.

2. All of those names are big names, but what about the lesser RBs that he played with; how did they do with him as a lead blocker?
- Adrian Murrell got barely over 1,000 yards in Neal's 1 year as a Jet
- Nobody in his time at NO hit 1,000 yards and a little-known guy named Mario Bates was the RB. This was also with a line with the likes of Willie Roaf on it.
- His last season (with the Ravens) was spent blocking for Le'Ron McClain and Willis McGahee and they both failed to hit 1,000 yards or 4.0 YPC (and the line wasn't bad at all).

Strike 2

3. The biggest thing of all, I feel he earned the PB nod when he was with us, but the rest of his accolades were all blocking for arguably the best RB in NFL history, who ran behind one of the best OLs of the 2000s AND had a superb offense that picked up a shit-ton of yards and points; anyone would look good blocking for LT and behind that line.

Strike 3

To say he was a BAD player is false, as the guy was tough as nails, strong as anyone and wasn't awful with the ball in his hands, but he basically just happened to play with phenomenal rushers for 11 years straight and, like I said, anyone would look good on those teams.

Hell, his first year with us, when our line was terrible, Corey only rushed for 3.9 YPC, which was his lowest total as a FT starter in the league. His second year with the Titans (and that was a very good OL as well) had George rushing for 3.7 YPC, the lowest in his career up to that point.

After the comprehensive look at all the players involved and teams, situations, etc., etc., the numbers told me clear as day, that regardless of the oline, talent, team, system, Lorenzo Neal had little to no effect on the players around him, from a numbers POV.

Put that together with the fact that, while not awful with the ball in his hands (as mentioned above), he wasn't that great either, makes him one of the most overrated players of our generation.

I'll take Alstott, Rob Konrad, Juszcyzk, Fred Beasley, Marc Edwards or Jeremi Johnson, if I have a choice of FBs.

As for my viewing, the Bengals were NEVER on TV, unless they played the Bills, Giants or Jets: I just was glued to the highlight clips and any bit of internet news I could get my hands on (I was one of the few people who had parents actually sign the household up to the internet in 1997, around here) at the time, plus I played Madden 98 (Genesis and a little bit PC) and Madden 2000 (PC) extensively, so I was very familiar with the players, the positions, etc.

I became a fan of the team when I was 3 years old (1992); the first Madden for consoles (on the Genesis), did not have the Cowboys on it (my dad's team), thus since I liked tigers at a young age, I became a Bengals fan. It wasn't until I turned about 5 or 6 that I really started to see them on tv (in the aforementioned highlight clips) and I got Madden 98 when I was 9, so that was my first exposure to non-Bengal players and the depths of our roster.