Great Article about NFL Free Agency Spending/Winning

[samhain]

(02-26-2017, 02:43 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The Bengals free agent approach over the last 14 years hasn't exactly reaped many rewards.  In fact there have been quite a few strikeouts when it comes to signing FA's to multi-year deals. 

With the exception of Marvin's very first FA class (Kelly, Thornton, Powell, Hardy, James) - the results since haven't been very impressive overall:

Bobbie Williams   (3 yr- 5,25m)   The one multi-year signing that paid huge dividends.
Bryan Robinson   (3 yr- 6m)   Was a solid starter and backup for 3 years.
BenJarvus Green-Ellis   (3 yr- 9.25m)   Played 2 years with Bengals, rushing for 1,850 yards.
Dexter Jackson   (4 yr- 7.6m)   Played 26 games in first 2 years, just 3 in his 3rd.
Antwan Odom   (5 yr- 29.5m)   Played 22 games in 3 seasons.
Thomas Howard   (2 yr- 6.5m)   Started 15 games his first year, played just 1 the next year.
Laverneous Coles   (4 yr- 28m)   Played 1 season, catching 43 passes.
Sam Adams   (3 yr deal)   Played 1 year and had 14 tackles.
Kim Herring   (5 yr- 7.8m)   Played 1 year for Bengals, starting 10 games.
James Harrison   (2 yr- 4.45m)   Played 1 year, with 10 starts and 2 sacks.
AJ Hawk   (2 yr- 3.25m)   Played 1 year and had 24 tackles.
Nate Webster   (5 yr- 10.3m)   Played 4 games in 2 years.
Jason Allen   (2 yr- 8.2m)   Played just 4 games and 1 year.
Antonio Bryant   (4 yr- 28m)   Zero games played as a Bengal.
Travelle Wharton   (3 yr- 10m)  Zero games played as a Bengal.
Jamal Anderson   (2 yr- 5.5m)   Zero games played as a Bengal.
Ben Utecht   (3 yr- 9m)   Zero games played as a Bengal.

For whatever reason, the Bengals have had much better luck signing low risk castoffs/bargains like Pacman, Newman, Dhani, Crocker, Benson, Gilberry...or FA's who can be had for reasonable one year deals like TO, Lawson, LaFell, etc. 

(I didn't include Michael Johnson or Pat Sims because they had previously been a Bengal)

A fair point, but it's also worth noting that their two most active years in FA were also pretty successful.  Marvin's first year netted James, Thornton, Hardy, Powell, and probably someone I'm forgetting.  James and Thornton were major contributors for a long time.  The others were mere role players, but all in all it was far from a bust venture.

The second instance was the lockout year in 2011, i.e. year 1 of the Dalton-Green era.  This team was predicted to go 3-13 and was largely a laughingstock before they started playing games.  They added Lawson, Clements, Howard, Mays, and then the fake Whitner signing, lol.  They replaced 2/3 of their starting linebacking corps.  They made the playoffs vs huge preseason odds.  Lawson was solid and hung around for a little bit and Howard was pretty good.  if not for his tragic death, who knows?  Not exactly disastrous signings there, either.   

[Bengalholic]

(02-26-2017, 11:59 PM)Housh Wrote: Jesus Christ was anyone on that list in their prime when they came here? Just Odom and Antonio Bryant? I cant remember

(02-27-2017, 12:40 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Law Firm signed here entering his 5th season.  Thomas Howard was entering his 6th.  Nate Webster was entering year 5.  Jason Allen was entering year 7.  Herring was entering year 8. Wharton was entering year 8.  Utecht was entering year 5.  A lot of these guys, you would think, would have a decent amount of tread on the tires.

Sort of a weird stat/observation:

Of the 18 players listed that were signed to contracts of 2 or more years...10 were done, never playing another regular season down in the NFL after leaving the Bengals (Utecht, Anderson, Bryant, Allen, Herring, Coles, Odom, Jackson, Green-Ellis, Clements) and 3 others a year later (Wharton, Adams, Hawk).

If you do the math, those 13 players combined, went on to play a grand total of 28 games after the Bengals. 

(Not counting Howard in this, of course.)

[Shake n Blake]

(02-27-2017, 12:40 AM)Whatever Wrote: The Law Firm signed here entering his 5th season.  Thomas Howard was entering his 6th.  Nate Webster was entering year 5.  Jason Allen was entering year 7.  Herring was entering year 8. Wharton was entering year 8.  Utecht was entering year 5.  A lot of these guys, you would think, would have a decent amount of tread on the tires.

Well even the guys on that list that were still in their primes weren't exactly what I'd call "mid-tier" free agents. Outside of Odom and Antonio Bryant. But even Bryant and Odom were questionable signings. Bryant due to injury history and Odom due to only having 1 decent season playing next to a premier DT. The Bengals paid for being cheap. They could've spent a little more to keep Housh and Justin Smith. Instead they replaced them with slightly cheaper, yet very flawed free agents. It honestly seems like the only times the Bengals sign a halfway decent FA, it's to replace a guy they let walk, and the FA always happens to be cheaper.

The Bengals have been their own worst enemy when it comes to them striking out, and it seems they use their own goof ups as an excuse not to be more aggressive in FA. As if Bryant and Odom are forever proof that FA doesn't work.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-27-2017, 01:58 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Sort of a weird stat/observation:

Of the 18 players listed that were signed to contracts of 2 or more years...10 were done, never playing another regular season down in the NFL after leaving the Bengals (Utecht, Anderson, Bryant, Allen, Herring, Coles, Odom, Jackson, Green-Ellis, Clements) and 3 others a year later (Wharton, Adams, Hawk).

If you do the math, those 13 players combined, went on to play a grand total of 28 games after the Bengals. Mellow

(Not counting Howard in this, of course.)

Seems the Bengals reap the rewards of having a miniscule player personnel department.

[Bengalholic]

(02-27-2017, 01:29 AM)samhain Wrote: A fair point, but it's also worth noting that their two most active years in FA were also pretty successful.  Marvin's first year netted James, Thornton, Hardy, Powell, and probably someone I'm forgetting.  James and Thornton were major contributors for a long time.  The others were mere role players, but all in all it was far from a bust venture.

The second instance was the lockout year in 2011, i.e. year 1 of the Dalton-Green era.  This team was predicted to go 3-13 and was largely a laughingstock before they started playing games.  They added Lawson, Clements, Howard, Mays, and then the fake Whitner signing, lol.  They replaced 2/3 of their starting linebacking corps.  They made the playoffs vs huge preseason odds.  Lawson was solid and hung around for a little bit and Howard was pretty good.  if not for his tragic death, who knows?  Not exactly disastrous signings there, either.   

Thanks for mentioning Clements. I had forgotten all about him. I'll edit my post and include his 2 yr deal.

Lawson was one the the good one year deals that I referred to and Mays was a trade. Howard had a good first year and then tore his ACL, if I remember right. But yeah, he was a solid player.

[samhain]

(02-27-2017, 02:18 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Thanks for mentioning Clements. I had forgotten all about him. I'll edit my post and include his 2 yr deal.

Lawson was one the the good one year deals that I referred to and Mays was a trade. Howard had a good first year and then tore his ACL, if I remember right. But yeah, he was a solid player.

I thought Man Law stuck around for more than 1 year.  I'll have to check on that one.  

[Bengalholic]

(02-27-2017, 02:22 AM)samhain Wrote: I thought Man Law stuck around for more than 1 year.  I'll have to check on that one.  

He was here for two years, both one year deals.

[samhain]

(02-27-2017, 02:27 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: He was here for two years, both one year deals.

Gotcha.  That makes sense.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-26-2017, 09:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Unless the NFL suspends Jones, I doubt he gets cut. 

Scotchedy, scotch, scotch....love the Anchorman vine.

I don't see any way he isn't suspended.  That kind of verbal abuse to a law enforcement officer can't be tolerated.  I know he is being forced in to an alcohol rehab treatment and maybe there is some kind of addiction rule that states they can't be cut while enrolled?  Maybe I should ask Manziel...he would know.

[Whatever]

(02-27-2017, 02:18 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Thanks for mentioning Clements. I had forgotten all about him. I'll edit my post and include his 2 yr deal.

Lawson was one the the good one year deals that I referred to and Mays was a trade. Howard had a good first year and then tore his ACL, if I remember right. But yeah, he was a solid player.

Yeah, when you lookat their track record, the Bengals are good at finding aging CB's that have a couple of good years left(Clements, Newman, Jones)... which makes the steady stream of 1st round CB's even more frustrating.

Irc, DT Tony Williams should be on the list.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-24-2017, 12:11 PM)bengals67 Wrote: what we consistently do is retain below average players who eat up cap space preventing us from keeping some of our better players and signing a truly high quality free agent or two each season.

why are Bodine, Ray M, Michael Johnson and Jones still on this team?

Once a player signs a contract with the Benagals , do any of them ever fear they might be cut if they under perform? No- because it never happens.

Broncos just cut their under performing tackle to have the money to sign Whit.

We woould never consider this.

Simple:

Bodiine is on a rookie deal, so there's no way you cut him, he's as cheap as he'll ever be.
Rey M is a little bit of a shocker, with the style of defense, he doesn't have much use.
MJ is still valuable as he eats up snaps.  Had a down year, but he does have the potential to play better.
Jones is one of the better CBs in the league.

The bottom line - those guys don't prevent us from signing free agents.  The front office prevents us from signing free agents.  We always have the cap space, we just never do it.  Mark my words, even if we cut those 4 guys, the team would just use that money to extend 4 of their own players.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-27-2017, 02:14 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well even the guys on that list that were still in their primes weren't exactly what I'd call "mid-tier" free agents. Outside of Odom and Antonio Bryant. But even Bryant and Odom were questionable signings. Bryant due to injury history and Odom due to only having 1 decent season playing next to a premier DT. The Bengals paid for being cheap. They could've spent a little more to keep Housh and Justin Smith. Instead they replaced them with slightly cheaper, yet very flawed free agents. It honestly seems like the only times the Bengals sign a halfway decent FA, it's to replace a guy they let walk, and the FA always happens to be cheaper.

The Bengals have been their own worst enemy when it comes to them striking out, and it seems they use their own goof ups as an excuse not to be more aggressive in FA. As if Bryant and Odom are forever proof that FA doesn't work.

Agreed. A lot of those guys were 4th and 5th Tier free agents and in some cases even lower that the Bengals overpaid for.

Odom wasn't great with the Titans...having 12.5 sacks over 4 years. Then the Bengals give him a huge contract.

Citing them as evidence that free agency doesn't work is nonsense. It's evidence that they need to start looking at mid-tier guys (2nd and 3rd Tier).

[THE PISTONS]

We all know that we have a small scouting department. Scouting extends far beyond the draft. It extends to spotting free agents that it your system too.