Someone please explain this to me?

[Jpoore]

This is not a rhetorical question I generally wanna know the answer to these questions bc I got the life of me can't figure this out. Also this is the last thread I make till after the combine bc I know I have been high on him for a while.
Why Is demarcus Walker so low on mock boards? I know stats don't mean everything but at this point they mean a lot. Why is he not one of the top 2 or 3?
Jonathon Allen
2015: 36 tackles 14.5 tackles for loss 12 sacks 2 forced fumbles.
2016: 69 tackles 16 tackles for loss 10.5 sacks 0 forced fumbles.
Myles Garrett
2015: 59 tackles 19.5 tackles for loss 11.5 sacks 1 int 5 forced fumbles.
2016: 33 tackles 15 tackles for loss 8.5 sacks 2 forced fumbles
Derek barnett
2015: 69 tackles 12.5 tackles for loss 10 sacks 1 forced fumble
2016: 56 tackles 19 tackles for loss 13 sacks 1 int 2 forced fumbles.
Taco charlon
2015: 30 tackles 8.5 tackles for loss 5.5 sacks 1 forced fumble.
2016: 40 tackles 13.5 tackles for loss 10 sacks 0 forced fumbles.
Charles Harris
2015: 56 tackles 18.5 tackles for loss 7 sacks 2 forced fumbles.
2016: 61 tackles 12 tackles for loss 9 sacks 2 forced fumbles.
Takkarist mckinley
2015: 35 tackles 7.5 tackles for loss 3.5 sacks 2 forced fumbles.
2016: 61 tackles 18 tackles for loss 10 sacks 3 forced fumbles
Solomon thomas
2015: 37 tackles 10.5 tackles for loss 3.5 sacks 0 forced fumbles.
2016: 61 tackles 14 tackles for loss 8.5 sacks 1 forced fumble.
Demarcus walker
2015: 56 tackles 14 tackles for loss 9 sacks 1 int 3 forced fumbles.
2016: 67 tackles 19.5 tackles for loss 16 sacks 3 forced fumbles.

Seems to me like his stats measure up better than almost everyone's. So why is he consistently overlooked by everyone? I chose 15 and 16 bc they seem to be most everyones best years. Any answers would be greatly appreciated

[wolfkaosaun]

Because stats don't always mean everything. It's as simple as that. One can point out Michael Sam and his stats, but there's more.

Landy Jones had more yards, passes, and touchdowns than Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.
Brandon Weeden had more passing yards, completion percentage, and touchdowns than RGIII, Luck, Wilson, and so on.
Stats don't always mean a thing.

Here's a list of some players that had more receiving yards than AJ Green his final year: Greg Salas, Justin Blackmon, Ryan Broyles, Alshon Jeffrey, Jordan White, Vincent Brown, Titus Young, Leonard Hankerson, Dwayne Harris, Armon Binns.

Here's a list of some players with more touchdowns that year: Justin Blackmon, Aldrick Robininson, Greg Salas, Leonard Hankerson, Michael Floyd, Jermaine Kearse, Torrey Smith, Dane Sanzenbacher, Dwayne Harris, Armon Binns.

AJ Green never had a 1,000 yard season in his college career. Only surpassed 900 once in his 3 years. Only had 23 TDs in 3 years as well.

You can't go by stats alone, that doesn't work.

[wolfkaosaun]

Here's some reasons why he's not a top 5 pick:

He seems fatigued and doesn't always appear to give full effort. If a firm block is placed on him, he mostly loses those battles. Has sloppy plays due to fatigue, causing him to miss assignments. Not really a natural pass rusher, doesn't possess great hips and bend. Struggles a lot against the run. Not sure where he lines up. Some will see him as a defensive end, some a defensive tackle, and others a situational pass rusher.

There's a lot of question marks with him. Did he not give full effort because he's tired? Or is that just the kind of player he is? Or does he get tired a lot and that's not changing in the NFL? Can he actually stop the run consistently?

A top 5 pick, there's not questions like that. You don't question if they're tired or if they give full effort.

[Whatever]

(02-18-2017, 01:57 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Here's some reasons why he's not a top 5 pick:

He seems fatigued and doesn't always appear to give full effort. If a firm block is placed on him, he mostly loses those battles. Has sloppy plays due to fatigue, causing him to miss assignments. Not really a natural pass rusher, doesn't possess great hips and bend. Struggles a lot against the run. Not sure where he lines up. Some will see him as a defensive end, some a defensive tackle, and others a situational pass rusher.

There's a lot of question marks with him. Did he not give full effort because he's tired? Or is that just the kind of player he is? Or does he get tired a lot and that's not changing in the NFL? Can he actually stop the run consistently?

A top 5 pick, there's not questions like that. You don't question if they're tired or if they give full effort.

I personally don't question Walker's motor, as he played over 90% of FSU's defensive snaps.  When you play a guy that much in the trenches, they are going to take some plays off.  To me, the big concern is that he's not a top shelf athlete and is close to topped out, or a high floor/low ceiling prospect.  You generally want a guy with more upside in the first couple of rounds.  At best, I think he's another MJ, at worst, another Rucker/Gilberry.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-18-2017, 02:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: I personally don't question Walker's motor, as he played over 90% of FSU's defensive snaps.  When you play a guy that much in the trenches, they are going to take some plays off.  To me, the big concern is that he's not a top shelf athlete and is close to topped out, or a high floor/low ceiling prospect.  You generally want a guy with more upside in the first couple of rounds.  At best, I think he's another MJ, at worst, another Rucker/Gilberry.

He has some good pass rushing moves. He displays flashes, but also can be taken out of plays. He has the ability to be good, but not as high a ceiling as Thomas or Barnett. MJ is a solid comparison. MJ has shown flashes, but also can be taken out of plays. Solid player with good plays.

[J24]

He doesn't have a great physique and he is a tweener between DT/DE. He will be one of those guys 4 years from now we're everyone will wonder why he wasn't picked sooner than he was.

[Jpoore]

(02-18-2017, 11:49 PM)J24 Wrote: He doesn't have a great physique and he is a tweener between DT/DE. He will be one of those guys 4 years from now we're everyone will wonder why he wasn't picked sooner than he was.

They list him at 280 but I'd he comes in around 273 I like him even more. That would put him firmly in the end category. I honestly would hate trading back and picking him up in the mid teens. 

[Jpoore]

(02-18-2017, 03:10 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: He has some good pass rushing moves. He displays flashes, but also can be taken out of plays. He has the ability to be good, but not as high a ceiling as Thomas or Barnett. MJ is a solid comparison. MJ has shown flashes, but also can be taken out of plays. Solid player with good plays.

Wolf I value ur opinion and ur scouting reports are second to none. But can you tell me why a guy who hasn't even broken double digit sacks is worth a top 10 pick? I get the whole upside thing but shouldn't production in college count for something? I think that he's the opposite of mj in terms of what he does well. Mj is a great run defender, while Walker is a great pass rusher. 

[bengalsturntup926]

(02-18-2017, 01:53 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Because stats don't always mean everything. It's as simple as that. One can point out Michael Sam and his stats, but there's more.

Landy Jones had more yards, passes, and touchdowns than Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.
Brandon Weeden had more passing yards, completion percentage, and touchdowns than RGIII, Luck, Wilson, and so on.
Stats don't always mean a thing.

Here's a list of some players that had more receiving yards than AJ Green his final year: Greg Salas, Justin Blackmon, Ryan Broyles, Alshon Jeffrey, Jordan White, Vincent Brown, Titus Young, Leonard Hankerson, Dwayne Harris, Armon Binns.

Here's a list of some players with more touchdowns that year: Justin Blackmon, Aldrick Robininson, Greg Salas, Leonard Hankerson, Michael Floyd, Jermaine Kearse, Torrey Smith, Dane Sanzenbacher, Dwayne Harris, Armon Binns.

AJ Green never had a 1,000 yard season in his college career. Only surpassed 900 once in his 3 years. Only had 23 TDs in 3 years as well.

You can't go by stats alone, that doesn't work.

Dalton lovers need to learn this, all I hear is the guys stats.I tell them romo and cousins can get stats, are they ever going to win a Superbowl? 

[bengalsturntup926]

(02-19-2017, 04:22 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Wolf I value ur opinion and ur scouting reports are second to none. But can you tell me why a guy who hasn't even broken double digit sacks is worth a top 10 pick? I get the whole upside thing but shouldn't production in college count for something? I think that he's the opposite of mj in terms of what he does well. Mj is a great run defender, while Walker is a great pass rusher. 

Yeah that is scary about thomas.I want pass rush if we are drafting it.I'd prefer someone who has proven they can do it. 

[Jpoore]

(02-19-2017, 05:32 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah that is scary about thomas.I want pass rush if we are drafting it.I'd prefer someone who has proven they can do it. 

Especially with a top 10 pick. Personally I wouldn't mind do defense end twice in top 4 rounds. Maybe a guy like kpassagnon in the third as he needs to learn how to run defend but could be great. He definitely knows how to pass rush. Dunlap's getting up there in age. But Walker to me makes the most sense in the second. I don't want the 4th best end at number 9. I want the best at their position  wether it's Mike Williams who is my preference, Malik hooker, Marshawn lattimore, Cunningham, cook, etc. 

[coachmcneil71]

(02-18-2017, 01:53 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Because stats don't always mean everything. It's as simple as that. One can point out Michael Sam and his stats, but there's more.

Landy Jones had more yards, passes, and touchdowns than Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.
Brandon Weeden had more passing yards, completion percentage, and touchdowns than RGIII, Luck, Wilson, and so on.
Stats don't always mean a thing.

Here's a list of some players that had more receiving yards than AJ Green his final year: Greg Salas, Justin Blackmon, Ryan Broyles, Alshon Jeffrey, Jordan White, Vincent Brown, Titus Young, Leonard Hankerson, Dwayne Harris, Armon Binns.

Here's a list of some players with more touchdowns that year: Justin Blackmon, Aldrick Robininson, Greg Salas, Leonard Hankerson, Michael Floyd, Jermaine Kearse, Torrey Smith, Dane Sanzenbacher, Dwayne Harris, Armon Binns.

AJ Green never had a 1,000 yard season in his college career. Only surpassed 900 once in his 3 years. Only had 23 TDs in 3 years as well.

You can't go by stats alone, that doesn't work.

The OP can apply this same knowledge in the Fournette thread. And I don't recall anyone saying that LF is better than Zeke. That remains to be learned. Walker could be very good be he is inconsistent with his effort.
That said, if he slips to the third & Cincy gets him, I would be cool with the pick.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-18-2017, 11:49 PM)J24 Wrote: He doesn't have a great physique and he is a tweener between DT/DE. He will be one of those guys 4 years from now we're everyone will wonder why he wasn't picked sooner than he was.

This.  While I don't see him "twitchy" enough to be a true outside pass rush threat in a 3-4 defense, I could see him being an every down RDE in a 4-3 that could rotate inside on pass rushing downs.

One characteristic I always consider is the supporting cast.  Walker wasn't surrounded by outstanding talent, but a group that was highly touted and never really lived up to their potential.  If he was on Bama, would he be receiving the pub of Allen?  Perhaps, but more than likely no because he doesn't deliver the outright speed that we have seen out of Allen, amazing for a man near 290 lbs.  

The supporting cast being weaker means opposing offenses likely had to focus on him, double teams, etc.  That was one thing the Bama team thrived on...they could beat you in so many ways.  

The bottom line is:  no one player is a sure thing, but when you see him excel against top talent, and make plays with both his brains (diagnosing plays) and his brawn (just bullrushing guys) then you might have a special talent.  A top 10 pick has to be a playmaker.  I think Walker could be a solid RDE, but never a Pro Bowler...just my two cents. 

[Jpoore]

(02-19-2017, 12:15 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: The OP can apply this same knowledge in the Fournette thread. And I don't recall anyone saying that LF is better than Zeke. That remains to be learned. Walker could be very good be he is inconsistent with his effort.
That said, if he slips to the third & Cincy gets him, I would be cool with the pick.

He's actually supposed to slip into the late first now so doubt we get him anyways. But as to the LF and Zeke thing I refer to this
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769553/article/ask-5-which-rb-do-you-prefer-ezekiel-elliott-or-fournette%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%253Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%253Dstory&env=&pageKeyValues=prtnr%253Dcollege-football%253Bplyr%253Dadrian_peterson%253Bplyr%253Dezekiel_elliott&p.ct=CFB+24%252F7&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%2523ffffff&p.bgc1m=%2523000000&sr=amp

(02-19-2017, 01:12 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This.  While I don't see him "twitchy" enough to be a true outside pass rush threat in a 3-4 defense, I could see him being an every down RDE in a 4-3 that could rotate inside on pass rushing downs.

One characteristic I always consider is the supporting cast.  Walker wasn't surrounded by outstanding talent, but a group that was highly touted and never really lived up to their potential.  If he was on Bama, would he be receiving the pub of Allen?  Perhaps, but more than likely no because he doesn't deliver the outright speed that we have seen out of Allen, amazing for a man near 290 lbs.  

The supporting cast being weaker means opposing offenses likely had to focus on him, double teams, etc.  That was one thing the Bama team thrived on...they could beat you in so many ways.  

The bottom line is:  no one player is a sure thing, but when you see him excel against top talent, and make plays with both his brains (diagnosing plays) and his brawn (just bullrushing guys) then you might have a special talent.  A top 10 pick has to be a playmaker.  I think Walker could be a solid RDE, but never a Pro Bowler...just my two cents. 

I agree with almost everything u said here but I believe he will be a 2-3 time pro bowler but never an all pro. Most likely first alternate on pro bowl teams. I believe him getting 8-10 sacks a year. But that was well thought out and some good points.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-19-2017, 04:22 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Wolf I value ur opinion and ur scouting reports are second to none. But can you tell me why a guy who hasn't even broken double digit sacks is worth a top 10 pick? I get the whole upside thing but shouldn't production in college count for something? I think that he's the opposite of mj in terms of what he does well. Mj is a great run defender, while Walker is a great pass rusher. 

Actually, coming out of college many people viewed MJ as mainly a pass rushing specialist. A raw one, but certainly a pass rusher. I remember he was a really fast player who could keep players off of him and make moves to get around the edge. He hasn't been the pass rusher many thought he would be, in his 45 games he started in his first 5 years he had 23.5 sacks. 26.5 if you include his rookie year where he didn't start any games. I thought he had the ability to be a great pass rusher, but he turned out to be a better run defender.


I assume you're talking about Thomas. While yes, he doesn't have many sacks, he also has a ton of stops for losses. He is able to read, react, and fill up gaps. That's not always going to show up on tape. Thomas relies on both power and quickness, rather than just one. He also has great hands and good technique. Teams will want him to gain weight, especially in lower body. So Combine will be big for him. If he gains weight and is still fast, he's definitely got every chance to be a top 10 pick. However, if he gains weight and is slower, he may drop.

Stats certainly matter. And Walker has the ones to show. But he's also on the field almost 90% of the time. And he doesn't have the bend and hips you want is a pass rusher. He also needs to work on footwork. Walker does have potential, but his technique isn't exactly the greatest as a pass rusher. His ability to struggle against the run is also concerning. Stats matter, but so does tape. There's some concerning things with his tape, but he certainly has upside.