FA Losses Last Year Feels Different Than This Years

[CanadianBengal]

The Bengals have lost a fair amount of talent over the last two off-seasons but the losses this year have been more frustrating for me.

Last we they lost:
Marvin Jones but offered to match the salary he got. He wanted to be a number one WR so left.
Mohamed Sanu- didn't see him as a number two and were trying to sign Jones.
Reggie Nelson- prioritized Iloka and extended Shawn Williams.
Andre Smith- didn't play well and had two early picks waiting in the wings.

So recognizing that in a salary cap league you can't keep everybody what happened last year makes sense. I think if Marvin Jones had of resigned Pacman would not have been retained.

Last year in the first round the only real need was WR (although every one but Bengal management thinks C and DT are areas of need). WJIII was likely drafted so they could let Dre walk.

Last year it appeared that the Bengals were in front of their holes for the most part and had to lose some players because a number of the young better players had moved into their second contract.

This year is different because they entered with clear holes RT, C, DT, DE, MLB, K, PR. So staying even in FA would allow them to use the draft to improve. You could even make the case that they needed to improve through FA.

Lack of production out of the last few drafts has really hurt. If Ced and Jake had looked good then this year would have made more sense. If WJIII or Dennard had of looked good Dre's or Pacmans money could have went elsewhere. If either of the early DE picks (Hunt/Clarke) had of panned out or Billings was the real deal then there would have been less holes.

As it stands today the Bengals have more holes than at the end of last year which is not good for a bottom ten team.

[fredtoast]

I don't think we have as many big holes as you claim, but I 100% agree that the losses this year are much bigger than last year because of the lack of clear replacements.

[Housh]

I truely believe we were on track to lose all 3 but when Mike sensed it he got off his ass and basically gave Dre a deal he couldn't refuse so he wouldn't look like a complete liar to the fans.


Miley is cheap with his money to the point that at times he finds himself having to overpay average players to give off the illusion that he was willing to spend big money the whole time. How you think guys like Rey M get 3 years 15 mil?

[muskiesfan]

While we as fans see holes, the Bengals organization does not. Because of our illustrious offensive line coach, Bodine and Ogbuehi will not be replaced so long as he is here. At least that's the appearance, so the Bengals do not see C and LT as issues. They re-signed TJ Johnson, so RG is not an issue with him and Westerman on the roster. Boling covers LG and Fisher is penciled in at RT with Winston re-signed as the back up. Alexander the Great says the line is good, so Lewis, Brown, Hobson, and the rest of the organization says the line is good. Marvin Lewis has already said the OLine is no concern. Obviously from the coaching staff to the front office, our people are way out of touch.

As for other holes, how many years have our LBs not been able to cover? How often have they actually made an effort to upgrade that? The Bengals believe you have to be run first in the AFCN, so they have run thumping LBs. The problem is, almost every other damn team in the NFL is all about passing. So after they exhaust our LBs by having them chase RBs and TEs around all game, who cares if they can stop the run?

Point is, we don't run the team. Mike Brown is going to do it his way and listen to his self appointed people (mainly his family). Mike's going to continue to do it his way even though it has proven to be unsuccessful for damn near 30 years.

[Atomic Orange]

I'm fine with potentially sacrificing a season to get an idea of what we have. Play all the young guns, take notes, and fill the gaps in 18.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2017, 01:17 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: The Bengals have lost a fair amount of talent over the last two off-seasons but the losses this year have been more frustrating for me.

Last we they lost:
Marvin Jones but offered to match the salary he got. He wanted to be a number one WR so left.
Mohamed Sanu- didn't see him as a number two and were trying to sign Jones.
Reggie Nelson- prioritized Iloka and extended Shawn Williams.
Andre Smith- didn't play well and had two early picks waiting in the wings.

So recognizing that in a salary cap league you can't keep everybody what happened last year makes sense. I think if Marvin Jones had of resigned Pacman would not have been retained.

Last year in the first round the only real need was WR (although every one but Bengal management thinks C and DT are areas of need). WJIII was likely drafted so they could let Dre walk.

Last year it appeared that the Bengals were in front of their holes for the most part and had to lose some players because a number of the young better players had moved into their second contract.

This year is different because they entered with clear holes RT, C, DT, DE, MLB, K, PR. So staying even in FA would allow them to use the draft to improve. You could even make the case that they needed to improve through FA.

Lack of production out of the last few drafts has really hurt. If Ced and Jake had looked good then this year would have made more sense. If WJIII or Dennard had of looked good Dre's or Pacmans money could have went elsewhere. If either of the early DE picks (Hunt/Clarke) had of panned out or Billings was the real deal then there would have been less holes.

As it stands today the Bengals have more holes than at the end of last year which is not good for a bottom ten team.

It is different. Usually we keep our good players. Letting Zeitler and especially Whitworth go is perplexing to say the least.

But hey, i love our draft from last year, just sucks our 2 best picks got hurt. Billings and WJ3 could be great and i already like Vigil.

Loved the Westerman pick as well but we will see if PA ruins him. Boyd and Core are awesome IMO.

If we bring in Andre and Mangold this could be pulled together still.

Og will get better, so will Fisher.

[BengalChris]

Nelson was one from last year that stung. He led the league in interceptions in 2015 and we couldn't compete with the $4M he got from Oakland. Instead we extend Williams.

We all understood why the team let Andre Smith go, but only the coaches knew how bad Og was. I don't see how it's possible for them to not know how he was turning out. Maybe he'll turn out okay some day, but so far he hasn't and they had to know unless they never bothered to look before putting him on the field.

Team could have signed Zeitler last year for a deal and came close to matching DeCastro's. Instead he's done and his replacement hasn't even been active for a single game. Have they even looked at how Westerman is advancing? You'd think that they must have, but I'm not so sure they have the way they missed on Og's progress.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2017, 03:01 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Nelson was one from last year that stung. He led the league in interceptions in 2015 and we couldn't compete with the $4M he got from Oakland. Instead we extend Williams.

We all understood why the team let Andre Smith go, but only the coaches knew how bad Og was. I don't see how it's possible for them to not know how he was turning out. Maybe he'll turn out okay some day, but so far he hasn't and they had to know unless they never bothered to look before putting him on the field.

Team could have signed Zeitler last year for a deal and came close to matching DeCastro's. Instead he's done and his replacement hasn't even been active for a single game. Have they even looked at how Westerman is advancing? You'd think that they must have, but I'm not so sure they have the way they missed on Og's progress.

This is all true and it is very concerning. With the way they handled the Og situation it is hard to have faith in PA at all.

Or Marv. You don't just trot a 1st round pick out there and think he will be great cause he was a 1st round pick...

You don't just keep starting the 1st round pick when he lets your QB get sacked and hit over and over cause he is a 1st round pick...

This is assinine.

I liked the Westerman pick a lot but who knows if he will be prepared to start with what we have seen as of late.

[jj22]

It's the end of an era. Another window slammed shut under Marvin. Without even a playoff victory to show for it.

That's why it feels different. It's just now setting in for some. Those who didn't see the writing on the wall last offseason, and swore to us the losses wouldn't hurt.

[SunsetBengal]

Of course it feels different. Losing a couple of secondary skill players, and a Safety is much different than losing an all-time great, heart and soul of your team. Let alone another rock of your OL.

[*Nately120*]

(03-12-2017, 04:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's the end of an era. Another window slammed shut under Marvin. Without even a playoff victory to show for it.

That's why it feels different. It's just now setting in for some. Those who didn't see the writing on the wall last offseason, and swore to us the losses wouldn't hurt.

We were delusionally optimistic going into last season.

Lost Hue --> we'll be better, Zampese will be less cute and focus on what works and give Dalton more control instead of trying to control him
Lost Jones/Sanu --> I'd rather see Core and Boyd step up, we'll be fine and LaFell should be ok
Eifert injured long-term -->  could be a blessing in disguise, Uzomah and Kroft could both really step up


Not all of these spelled doom and gloom, but we did get a bit of a slap in the face from reality in 2016. I believe someone said our offense went from 4th to 26th or something. If you would have told us Dalton would have been healthy for 2016 and we would have won 6 games....well, ouch.
 

[Derrick]

(03-12-2017, 04:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's the end of an era. Another window slammed shut under Marvin. Without even a playoff victory to show for it.

That's why it feels different. It's just now setting in for some. Those who didn't see the writing on the wall last offseason, and swore to us the losses wouldn't hurt.

I can only hope that someone will archive these posts and publish them next season after we see how the season is going. I venture it will not be pretty even with a 3rd place schedule.Everyone but F _ _ _ sees the light at the end of the tunnel...Oh its an oncoming train!!!

[Jpoore]

(03-12-2017, 03:01 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Nelson was one from last year that stung. He led the league in interceptions in 2015 and we couldn't compete with the $4M he got from Oakland. Instead we extend Williams.

We all understood why the team let Andre Smith go, but only the coaches knew how bad Og was. I don't see how it's possible for them to not know how he was turning out. Maybe he'll turn out okay some day, but so far he hasn't and they had to know unless they never bothered to look before putting him on the field.

Team could have signed Zeitler last year for a deal and came close to matching DeCastro's. Instead he's done and his replacement hasn't even been active for a single game. Have they even looked at how Westerman is advancing? You'd think that they must have, but I'm not so sure they have the way they missed on Og's progress.

problem is u cant have it both ways.... Hey stop playing the vets play the draft picks dont have them sit on the bench for 3 years. Well we did play the young guy and it bit us on the ass.

[treee]

(03-12-2017, 02:35 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I'm fine with potentially sacrificing a season to get an idea of what we have. Play all the young guns, take notes, and fill the gaps in 18.

The turnover was inevitable but I think it's pretty clear that the transition has been nowhere near as smooth as they were hoping for.

[BonnieBengal]

(03-12-2017, 02:08 PM)Housh Wrote: I truely believe we were on track to lose all 3 but when Mike sensed it he got off his ass and basically gave Dre a deal he couldn't refuse so he wouldn't look like a complete liar to the fans.


Miley is cheap with his money to the point that at times he finds himself having to overpay average players to give off the illusion that he was willing to spend big money the whole time. How you think guys like Rey M get 3 years 15 mil?

I really don't think Mike cares what the fans think, at all.

[BengalChris]

(03-13-2017, 08:58 AM)Jpoore Wrote: problem is u cant have it both ways.... Hey stop playing the vets play the draft picks dont have them sit on the bench for 3 years. Well we did play the young guy and it bit us on the ass.

I do understand that and it's a good point. However, there are lessor guys who could have been let go and made room for a younger guy. Say maybe at MLB or K (which we finally did).

But to let the young guys play you have to have quality young guys to step up. Og for Andre Smith was devastating and the team just kept trotting him out there as if next week would some how be different.

I know the team tries to find quality youth who will become starters, but they don't seem to be willing to acknowledge a mistake, then go get another player. How long was Hunt on this team? 4 years for a completely failed 2rd round pick. Hardison seems to be a permaIR guy. Thompson is another one. There was a desperate need along the DL the last couple of years and these guys just didn't step up.

[eoxyod]

Here's the thing about the Marvin Jones loss, which was definitely the most felt and worst loss of last offseason:

I really don't think it was about being the main option. In the grand scheme of things, the Lions did offer more money that the Bengals wouldn't give. There would be no way the Bengals offered 20 million guaranteed, and there might have been some other numbers that might have not benefited Jones to stay here. That's where the real money is and why Jones left. The Bengals work around some gtd money a bit but he still left because those numbers just were not there

[Housh]

I think people are more pissed about us letting ppl walk and not having suitable replacements.

At the end of the day if we let my fave player Houshmanzadeh walk then ANYBODY can get the axe. But at least when we let Housh walk we had Ocho Cinco still, we had Andre Caldwell, Chris Henry, Antonio Chatman, and we even made a FA signing in Laverneous Coles to make sure we didn't suffer. AKA we had a suitable backup plan for letting 92 receptions, 900 yards and 4 TDs walk in Free agency. People were pissed but NO ONE was mad for long because we had a plan for the WR position.



Idk when we stopped caring but it seems recently like we just don't give AF anymore. All our guys are walking and were being straight lazy or blind with the assumption that the draft will supplement the production lost.

We did all that after we lost Housh in 2009 and nowadays we lose 2 above average lineman and wont even look to get a great one back.


Then to make it worse our own head coach has the ***** nerve to say hes not concerned about the o line. What world do these dudes live in

[Hammerstripes]

I think it's different this year because we had $40 million in cap space and really 2 young guys that we needed to sign long term. I would have liked to have signed Whit, but I understand the move.

The other reason this year feels so different is because we aren't losing skill players, we are losing the guys up front. I always feel like WRs, RBs and Safeties are much easier to replace than a LT and OG. Games are won and lost in the trenches, and I feel like we took a major hit.

[Beaker]

(03-13-2017, 11:42 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Games are won and lost in the trenches, and I feel like we took a major hit.

But on this MB they are won and lost in FA.