Andre Smith back mock

[*ochocincos*]

Re-sign:
Dre Kirkpatrick - 5 year, $54 million ($10.8 mill per year)
Brandon LaFell - 2 year, $10 million ($5 mill per year)
Eric Winston - 1 year, $1 million
TJ Johnson - 1 year, $1.8 million (RFA tender - yet to sign)

FA:
Andre Smith - 1 year, $4.5 mill

Draft:
1) Haason Reddick, LB Temple (6'1", 237 lb)

2) Pat Elflein, C/OG Ohio St (6'3", 303 lb)

3) Jordan Willis, DE Kansas St (6'4", 255 lb)

4) Samaje Perine, RB Oklahoma (5'11", 233 lb)

4comp) Shelton Gibson, WR West Virginia (5'11", 191 lb)

5) Jalen Myrick, CB Minnesota (5'10", 200 lbs)

5comp) DeAngelo Brown, NT Louisville (6'1", 317 lb)

6) Zane Gonzalez, K Arizona St (6'1", 195 lb)

6comp) De'Angelo Henderson, RB Coastal Carolina (5'7", 209 lb)

7) Jerry Ugokwe, OT William & Mary (6'7", 321 lb)

7comp) Cole Hikutini, TE Louisville (6'4", 248 lb)

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 11:17 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Re-sign:
Dre Kirkpatrick - 5 year, $54 million ($10.8 mill per year)
Brandon LaFell - 2 year, $10 million ($5 mill per year)
Eric Winston - 1 year, $1 million
TJ Johnson - 1 year, $1.8 million (RFA tender - yet to sign)

FA:
Andre Smith - 1 year, $4.5 mill

Draft:
1) Haason Reddick, LB Temple (6'1", 237 lb)

2) Pat Elflein, C/OG Ohio St (6'3", 303 lb)

3) Jordan Willis, DE Kansas St (6'4", 255 lb)

4) Samaje Perine, RB Oklahoma (5'11", 233 lb)

4comp) Shelton Gibson, WR West Virginia (5'11", 191 lb)

5) Jalen Myrick, CB Minnesota (5'10", 200 lbs)

5comp) DeAngelo Brown, NT Louisville (6'1", 317 lb)

6) Zane Gonzalez, K Arizona St (6'1", 195 lb)

6comp) De'Angelo Henderson, RB Coastal Carolina (5'7", 209 lb)

7) Jerry Ugokwe, OT William & Mary (6'7", 321 lb)

7comp) Cole Hikutini, TE Louisville (6'4", 248 lb)

Other than the obvious reach at #9, I like this draft a lot.

Give me a top 10 player at #10 and this is about as good of a draft as I've seen.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 11:26 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Other than the obvious reach at #9, I like this draft a lot.

Give me a top 10 player at #10 and this is about as good of a draft as I've seen.

I went with Reddick over Foster because while he's not as quite a complete LB yet, he is much more developed as a pass rusher.
I didn't go WR in the first because of the LaFell re-signing, even though John Ross is my favorite WR in the draft.
I could have gone Cook or Fournette, but I think the LB talent drops off faster than RB talent.
I don't want DE at 9 unless Thomas is there, but I'm expecting he won't be. But if it was a DE at 9, a LB in the third would fit fine.
I don't see a safety taken at 9 unless the team is willing to move Williams to nickel LB. Given that's a low probability, I avoided the scenario.

Also, I do think Reddick at 9 is somewhat of a reach (CBS has him at 13th best player right now), but given you can't ensure trading back, I didn't do a trade scenario. If there's a team in the 12-15 range that would be a good trade partner, I'm all for it and taking Reddick there instead.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 11:35 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I went with Reddick over Foster because while he's not as quite a complete LB yet, he is much more developed as a pass rusher.
I didn't go WR in the first because of the LaFell re-signing, even though John Ross is my favorite WR in the draft.
I could have gone Cook or Fournette, but I think the LB talent drops off faster than RB talent.
I don't want DE at 9 unless Thomas is there, but I'm expecting he won't be. But if it was a DE at 9, a LB in the third would fit fine.
I don't see a safety taken at 9 unless the team is willing to move Williams to nickel LB. Given that's a low probability, I avoided the scenario.

Also, I do think Reddick at 9 is somewhat of a reach (CBS has him at 13th best player right now), but given you can't ensure trading back, I didn't do a trade scenario. If there's a team in the 12-15 range that would be a good trade partner, I'm all for it and taking Reddick there instead.

While I completely agree with YOUR reasoning, you have to consider the system that we run.

Where are you going to play him?  We hardly ever (pretty much never) use our LBs on a pass rush.  
I also think (and most "insiders" do as well, that Vigil is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job)

The more this offseason unfolds, the more I think that there is zero chance we go LB at #9.  I just don't think the team will do it.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 01:30 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: While I completely agree with YOUR reasoning, you have to consider the system that we run.

Where are you going to play him?  We hardly ever (pretty much never) use our LBs on a pass rush.  
I also think (and most "insiders" do as well, that Vigil is going to be given every opportunity to win the starting job)

The more this offseason unfolds, the more I think that there is zero chance we go LB at #9.  I just don't think the team will do it.

Well when Guenther said he's looking at pass rushers of all different shapes and sizes, I assume he'd think of a way to use Reddick as a rusher.

I understand that the three starting LBs are likely Burfict, Rey, and Vigil. I expect Reddick to be a backup LB as a rookie that can be a situational pass rusher.
Burfict could hit FA after this year and Vincent Rey the year after. So given the Bengals like to take 1-2 years to groom draft picks anyway, this could make sense.

As others have said, Reddick might become a better LB than Foster and provides something Foster really doesn't, which is pass rush. He's also bigger than Foster, and doesn't seem to have the "Don't you know who I am?" attitude.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 01:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well when Guenther said he's looking at pass rushers of all different shapes and sizes, I assume he'd think of a way to use Reddick as a rusher.

I understand that the three starting LBs are likely Burfict, Rey, and Vigil. I expect Reddick to be a backup LB as a rookie that can be a situational pass rusher.
Burfict could hit FA after this year and Vincent Rey the year after. So given the Bengals like to take 1-2 years to groom draft picks anyway, this could make sense.

As others have said, Reddick might become a better LB than Foster and provides something Foster really doesn't, which is pass rush. He's also bigger than Foster, and doesn't seem to have the "Don't you know who I am?" attitude.

It's possible.  I just don't see the Bengals using #9 on a backup/developmental player.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 01:54 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It's possible.  I just don't see the Bengals using #9 on a backup/developmental player.

Given they've had practically every first rounder since 2011 be a backup player at first besides AJ Green and Kevin Zeitler, I expect this first rounder to also be a backup.

Heck, even if Solomon Thomas falls to 9, you really think he'd get the start over MJ? No, he'd be used as a backup DE and situational interior pass rusher.
Any safety that would come in at 9 would not be handed the starter's role either, as the Bengals would default that to Williams and Iloka.

The only likely starter at 9 would be possibly RB. And honestly, I'd rather see a RB taken after the first round than see Fournette or Cook at 9.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 02:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Given they've had practically every first rounder since 2011 be a backup player at first besides AJ Green and Kevin Zeitler, I expect this first rounder to also be a backup.

Heck, even if Solomon Thomas falls to 9, you really think he'd get the start over MJ? No, he'd be used as a backup DE and situational interior pass rusher.
Any safety that would come in at 9 would not be handed the starter's role either, as the Bengals would default that to Williams and Iloka.

The only likely starter at 9 would be possibly RB. And honestly, I'd rather see a RB taken after the first round than see Fournette or Cook at 9.

The team has been pretty clear that they need the #9 pick to be an immediate impact player.

I don't see them bringing in a LB.  I know the media is 90% sold on Foster to the Bengals, but with only 2 starting LBs, there's no way they are burning that pick on a LB.  I just don't see it.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 02:26 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The team has been pretty clear that they need the #9 pick to be an immediate impact player.

I don't see them bringing in a LB.  I know the media is 90% sold on Foster to the Bengals, but with only 2 starting LBs, there's no way they are burning that pick on a LB.  I just don't see it.

Who would be more of an immediate impact player than Reddick?

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 03:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Who would be more of an immediate impact player than Reddick?

Fournette
John Ross
Derek Barnett
Soloman Thomas
Mike Williams
Reuben Foster

If you are drafting in the top 10, you have to come away with one of the 10 best prospects in the draft.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 03:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Fournette
John Ross
Derek Barnett
Soloman Thomas
Mike Williams
Reuben Foster

If you are drafting in the top 10, you have to come away with one of the 10 best prospects in the draft.

I wouldn't mind a WR drafted, but I hope it's not Mike Williams. I'd rather a top TE over Williams. John Ross or Corey Davis for me if it's WR. The bengals lack speed at WR and those two provide it. Williams does not.

I agree with you about Thomas. But I don't think he lasts that long. If he's there, I agree take him.

I wouldn't mind Fournette, but the RB depth is so much better than the LB depth this year. I'd rather wait on RB. Plus, the Bengals aren't a run-first team so Fournette likely wouldn't be as productive as we'd like.

I disagree about Barnett being more impactful than Reddick.
Foster is just about as impactful as Reddick. Less pass rush, but better LB right now. Reddick could become a better LB than Foster if coached right.

[TGISunday]

I like it. Hope we sign Barwin, too

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 03:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I wouldn't mind a WR drafted, but I hope it's not Mike Williams. I'd rather a top TE over Williams. John Ross or Corey Davis for me if it's WR. The bengals lack speed at WR and those two provide it. Williams does not.

I agree with you about Thomas. But I don't think he lasts that long. If he's there, I agree take him.

I wouldn't mind Fournette, but the RB depth is so much better than the LB depth this year. I'd rather wait on RB. Plus, the Bengals aren't a run-first team so Fournette likely wouldn't be as productive as we'd like.

I disagree about Barnett being more impactful than Reddick.
Foster is just about as impactful as Reddick. Less pass rush, but better LB right now. Reddick could become a better LB than Foster if coached right.

I don't think the Bengals view LB as a need right now.  I think they are looking for depth and that is it.

As far as RB depth, it depends on how you look at it.  Many people feel that Fournette is a once in a decade type talent.  I don't see any LBs that are spoken as of highly.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 04:19 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't think the Bengals view LB as a need right now.  I think they are looking for depth and that is it.

As far as RB depth, it depends on how you look at it.  Many people feel that Fournette is a once in a decade type talent.  I don't see any LBs that are spoken as of highly.

I could see that. Fournette at 9, A depth type LB that can cover and play all spots at 4 - Alex Anzalone. Or maybe Jalen Reeves-Maybin in the 5th or later. Other than those two, I don't really like any other Day 3 LBs.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2017, 05:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I could see that. Fournette at 9, A depth type LB that can cover and play all spots at 4 - Alex Anzalone. Or maybe Jalen Reeves-Maybin in the 5th or later. Other than those two, I don't really like any other Day 3 LBs.

I wouldn't be shocked to see one of the free agent linebackers picked up (Robinson, Minter) and the team basically draft a speed guy for special teams in the 6-7 round.  We also have Flowers on the roster.

Listen, I'm with you, I would love to get a LB that can do it all (and that's where I would go in the draft) but I just don't think the Bengals will do it because of their scheme.

[TKUHL]

With Minter now we can swap out the 1st and 3rd positions. Reddick is flying up the boards, I think he's being overrated. Before all the hype he was a 3rd/4th RD pick.

[BenZoo2]

(03-21-2017, 01:44 AM)TKUHL Wrote: With Minter now we can swap out the 1st and 3rd positions. Reddick is flying up the boards, I think he's being overrated. Before all the hype he was a 3rd/4th RD pick.

3rd at the lowest.  Lots of sites had him round 2.  Now it's a foot race to see which is the first one off the board.  Reddick blows foster away athletically

[TKUHL]

(03-21-2017, 08:32 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: 3rd at the lowest.  Lots of sites had him round 2.  Now it's a foot race to see which is the first one off the board.  Reddick blows foster away athletically

I dunno man, I heard Foster ran a 4.40 out of the hospital.