Could the Bengals 1st round plan be as simple as OJ Howard?

[depthchart]

The Bengals tend to Draft with the idea of getting players in place that will be replacements for current players that they expect will be leaving the team soon. Decisions to pay or not to pay Jeremy Hill and Tyler Eifert bigger contracts in 2018 may drive the first few picks they make in the 2017 Draft. The Bengals may look at it as solving the Tyler Eifert higher dollars in 2018 issue with one pick of OJ Howard and they still have 10 picks left after round 1. A sound Business decision in their minds and they take what many Analysts consider to be the Safest pick in the Draft.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-16-2017, 10:08 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It would be shocking to see a TE go in the top 10, however it's worth mentioning that CBSSports has OJ Howard ranked as the #7 overall prospect right now.

Believe it or not, OJ Howard is more athletic and faster than Tyler Eifert. He posted better in every Combine drill besides the vert jump. Plus, one thing that Howard has done which Eifert didn't have much experience with in college was being an inline blocker. OJ Howard would be able to contribute immediately.

Given how fragile Eifert is, how bad the Bengals TEs have been when Eifert has been out, and the fact the team will likely need to use a blocking TE often to help the OL, the idea of drafting Howard doesn't seem so farfetched. However, with that said, I think the fans would throw a fit if they see the Bengals take a TE in the first round when there are more pressing "needs".

I completely agree with your reasoning, but we do have Eifert on the team.  This is an opportunity (hopefully rare) to add a top 10 talent to the roster.

We've got some serious needs on the team.  I wouldn't say TE is one.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2017, 11:37 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I completely agree with your reasoning, but we do have Eifert on the team.  This is an opportunity (hopefully rare) to add a top 10 talent to the roster.

We've got some serious needs on the team.  I wouldn't say TE is one.

If at least some "experts" are ranking OJ Howard in the top 10, then doesn't that mean he's in the discussion as a top 10 talent?
Ultimately, isn't a "top 10 talent" subjective based on who you ask?

It's very feasible that OJ Howard is considered a top 10 talent by 1+ teams.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-16-2017, 11:54 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If at least some "experts" are ranking OJ Howard in the top 10, then doesn't that mean he's in the discussion as a top 10 talent?
Ultimately, isn't a "top 10 talent" subjective based on who you ask?

It's very feasible that OJ Howard is considered a top 10 talent by 1+ teams.

I don't put much stock in "experts" rankings.  Every year there are 4 or 5 top 20 guys available in the 2nd/3rd round.

I would think there would have to be a weird set of events for Howard to be the pick for the Bengals.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2017, 12:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't put much stock in "experts" rankings.  Every year there are 4 or 5 top 20 guys available in the 2nd/3rd round.

I would think there would have to be a weird set of events for Howard to be the pick for the Bengals.

At this point, there are so many prospects to pick from and the only "ideal" prospects are Garrett or Thomas. Everyone will debate any other prospect.
The entire fan base is not going to agree on the #9 pick.
So I think you're going to see some fans happy and some very angry based on the pick at #9.

[Au165]

(03-16-2017, 10:08 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It would be shocking to see a TE go in the top 10, however it's worth mentioning that CBSSports has OJ Howard ranked as the #7 overall prospect right now.

Believe it or not, OJ Howard is more athletic and faster than Tyler Eifert. He posted better in every Combine drill besides the vert jump. Plus, one thing that Howard has done which Eifert didn't have much experience with in college was being an inline blocker. OJ Howard would be able to contribute immediately.

Given how fragile Eifert is, how bad the Bengals TEs have been when Eifert has been out, and the fact the team will likely need to use a blocking TE often to help the OL, the idea of drafting Howard doesn't seem so farfetched. However, with that said, I think the fans would throw a fit if they see the Bengals take a TE in the first round when there are more pressing "needs".

I get all that, but the drop off from Howard to the next level of guy in this draft I don't think is huge. Go back and look where guys like Reed, Gronk, Pitta were drafted mid round TE's in deep classes have major value. I think we could get a similar guy with Leggot from Clemson in the 4th creating better value.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-16-2017, 12:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: At this point, there are so many prospects to pick from and the only "ideal" prospects are Garrett or Thomas. Everyone will debate any other prospect.
The entire fan base is not going to agree on the #9 pick.
So I think you're going to see some fans happy and some very angry based on the pick at #9.

I would think that the board would blow up if Howard was picked at #9.  

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2017, 12:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: I get all that, but the drop off from Howard to the next level of guy in this draft I don't think is huge. Go back and look where guys like Reed, Gronk, Pitta were drafted mid round TE's in deep classes have major value. I think we could get a similar guy with Leggot from Clemson in the 4th creating better value.

You bring up Reed, Gronk, and Pitta. First off, Reed, Gronk, and Pitta were not solid blockers coming out of college. Gronk was considered the best out of the three, and Reed still is really just a receiving TE. Second, all of these TEs are much slower than OJ Howard. Pitta = 4.63 40. Gronk = 4.68. Reed = 4.72. Eifert = 4.68. Howard's time was 4.51. That's GREAT for a 251 lb TE.
Gronk was also a second-round pick because there were questions with his durability, and that proved to be a valid concern. Gronk has missed 24 games in his seven-year career.

You seem to be focused primarily on the receiving aspect of TE, as you mention Leggett. Leggett doesn't offer the blocking that Howard does, plus his ceiling isn't as high. Maybe you like Evan Engram, but he's strictly a receiving TE. Too small to be an inline blocker and hardly any experience doing that. He's really just a big receiver. Hodges has ideal size, but also was rarely used as an inline blocker. Jake Butt is viewed as a less athletic version of Eifert in terms of receiving but has experience and success with inline blocking in college.

Overall, there is a reason OJ Howard is being viewed as the top TE and even has arguments of going in the top half of the draft. He's simply the most well-rounded TE, he tested off the charts at the combine for his size, he has a tremendously high ceiling, and he's NFL-ready from Day 1.

[Au165]

(03-16-2017, 01:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You bring up Reed, Gronk, and Pitta. First off, Reed, Gronk, and Pitta were not solid blockers coming out of college. Gronk was considered the best out of the three, and Reed still is really just a receiving TE. Second, all of these TEs are much slower than OJ Howard. Pitta = 4.63 40. Gronk = 4.68. Reed = 4.72. Eifert = 4.68. Howard's time was 4.51. That's GREAT for a 251 lb TE.
Gronk was also a second-round pick because there were questions with his durability, and that proved to be a valid concern. Gronk has missed 24 games in his seven-year career.

You seem to be focused primarily on the receiving aspect of TE, as you mention Leggett. Leggett doesn't offer the blocking that Howard does, plus his ceiling isn't as high. Maybe you like Evan Engram, but he's strictly a receiving TE. Too small to be an inline blocker and hardly any experience doing that. He's really just a big receiver. Hodges has ideal size, but also was rarely used as an inline blocker. Jake Butt is viewed as a less athletic version of Eifert in terms of receiving but has experience and success with inline blocking in college.

Overall, there is a reason OJ Howard is being viewed as the top TE and even has arguments of going in the top half of the draft. He's simply the most well-rounded TE, he tested off the charts at the combine for his size, he has a tremendously high ceiling, and he's NFL-ready from Day 1.

Did you just say Jordan Reed was a solid blocker coming out of college? That was the biggest concern about the guy, he couldn't block well at all. The reason I focus on the receiving side of being a TE is because that is where the league is heading, Jordan Reed is still a liability when he is in line but his advantage when running routes makes up for it. Jimmy Graham was similar, but with even less blocking experience, these guys are blocking liabilities but they give you a lot in the passing game. I like Leggot because he is a willing blocker and you can teach willing blockers to be better.

Simply put, I want value in the draft and a TE at 9 (no matter how well rounded he is) is not value in any draft especially not one as deep as this one at TE. A Jake Butt, or even some of the 2nd round options that may slide into the 3rd provide more value. A TE at 9 is a luxury pick when you are one piece away from a title, we are not there.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-16-2017, 10:53 AM)depthchart Wrote: The Bengals tend to Draft with the idea of getting players in place that will be replacements for current players that they expect will be leaving the team soon. Decisions to pay or not to pay Jeremy Hill and Tyler Eifert bigger contracts in 2018 may drive the first few picks they make in the 2017 Draft. The Bengals may look at it as solving the Tyler Eifert higher dollars in 2018 issue with one pick of OJ Howard and they still have 10 picks left after round 1. A sound Business decision in their minds and they take what many Analysts consider to be the Safest pick in the Draft.

This couldn't be farther from the truth.  If there's one thing that we have seen with Cincy in the last 10 years, it's that they consistently draft the BPA on their board.  They have ignored needs on several occasions and stayed true to their board.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-16-2017, 12:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't put much stock in "experts" rankings.  Every year there are 4 or 5 top 20 guys available in the 2nd/3rd round.

I would think there would have to be a weird set of events for Howard to be the pick for the Bengals.

Yes!  And I find it comical to listen to them make excuses as to why X or Y player has fallen so far.  They should do away with that entire "green room" thing, as well.  It does not bode well for the psyche of a young man, who has worked his ass off his entire life, to have a camera looking in on him as every passing draft pick doesn't announce his name.  That is just some twisted "drama" creation.  They just want to look for any expression, even a fleck of emotion on the poor dudes face, so that they can make passing conversation while teams are on the clock.

They should just go back to the days when all of the top talent was just in the audience, and came on down when called, ala The Price is Right.  Get rid of all those stupid gatherings of fan bases at the draft, invite prospects and their families free of charge. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2017, 06:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: Did you just say Jordan Reed was a solid blocker coming out of college? That was the biggest concern about the guy, he couldn't block well at all. The reason I focus on the receiving side of being a TE is because that is where the league is heading, Jordan Reed is still a liability when he is in line but his advantage when running routes makes up for it. Jimmy Graham was similar, but with even less blocking experience, these guys are blocking liabilities but they give you a lot in the passing game. I like Leggot because he is a willing blocker and you can teach willing blockers to be better.

Simply put, I want value in the draft and a TE at 9 (no matter how well rounded he is) is not value in any draft especially not one as deep as this one at TE. A Jake Butt, or even some of the 2nd round options that may slide into the 3rd provide more value. A TE at 9 is a luxury pick when you are one piece away from a title, we are not there.

No, in fact I said the exact opposite.

ochocincos Wrote:First off, Reed, Gronk, and Pitta were not solid blockers coming out of college.

[depthchart]

(03-16-2017, 06:10 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: This couldn't be farther from the truth.  If there's one thing that we have seen with Cincy in the last 10 years, it's that they consistently draft the BPA on their board.  They have ignored needs on several occasions and stayed true to their board.

What I said shouldn't be taken in a Vacuum. The Bengals do as you say in taking the BPA on their Board but what Drives their Board? They are a Draft & Develop Organization that likes to keep Costs low while creating a Player Pipeline. They Planned for the Zeitler/Whitworth possible departures a few years back with Ogbuyei and Fisher. It was no BPA accident. It was Planning for the Pipeline that Shaped their BPA Board. Getting William Jackson III in place knowing Dre leaving was a possibility & Pac Man was aging. Having a Servicable player in place at a position may Shape the Board to drive that position down the Board. For example, having Jeremy Hill in place may have caused the Bengals to pass on a better back in recent drafts. Now with the knowledge that Jeremy Hill may be a Free Agent in 2018 the running back position will likely RISE up their Board looking for as you say BPA but in earlier rounds at running back. Needs also come in to play at times in how their Board is shaped. For example, they needed a QB when they drafted Dalton which drove QB into a higher round than say the year they took McCarron with less of a need in round 5. Future and present needs, finances and other factors SHAPE their Board. Then as you say they go BPA from there.

[Au165]

(03-16-2017, 06:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: No, in fact I said the exact opposite.

Sorry, I was confused as that actually is my point of why the value of the hybrid Te makes more sense then the "well rounded" one.  

[bengalsturntup926]

With the Bengals, yes it is possible!!! Nobody thought we'd take a tight end when they drafted eifhurt, they all said there was no way on hell and it's not a need when I brought up tight ends in my Bengals group. Then we got eifhurt and people started liking it.

With that said I think they are gung ho on drafting pass rusher this year, I think it's going to be Thomas, especially with allowing peko to leave, which was thought to never happen.

[Jpoore]

Looks like were interested in bucky hodges.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2017/3/16/14950348/bengals-virginia-tech-pro-day-bucky-hodges

[Au165]

(03-17-2017, 07:31 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Looks like were interested in bucky hodges.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2017/3/16/14950348/bengals-virginia-tech-pro-day-bucky-hodges

This to me is a much better value, and I'd be okay with him in the late 2nd/3rd range.

[Jpoore]

(03-17-2017, 09:02 AM)Au165 Wrote: This to me is a much better value, and I'd be okay with him in the late 2nd/3rd range.

Fine with him or butt. I really like this dude. He can do everything. Bucky hodges would be solid as well.

[RiverRat13]

Hobson has the Bengals taking Howard in his latest mock on bengals.com.

The OP makes sense - it gives the Bengals a dynamic look with two TE for a season and then they would let Eifert walk to save money.

[McC]

(03-16-2017, 10:53 AM)depthchart Wrote: The Bengals tend to Draft with the idea of getting players in place that will be replacements for current players that they expect will be leaving the team soon. Decisions to pay or not to pay Jeremy Hill and Tyler Eifert bigger contracts in 2018 may drive the first few picks they make in the 2017 Draft. The Bengals may look at it as solving the Tyler Eifert higher dollars in 2018 issue with one pick of OJ Howard and they still have 10 picks left after round 1. A sound Business decision in their minds and they take what many Analysts consider to be the Safest pick in the Draft.

All great points.  I'm thinking it's a pick maybe we should get on board with ahead of time.