Bengals Trading Up in 1st ?

[*Go Cards*]

(04-10-2017, 04:21 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Give the WR's a break. After AJ last year you had a guy first year in the system and 3 rookies. If god forbid AJ went down again this year, I'd expect the passing game to be better this year than last, under this scenario.

Rumors are starting that Cleveland is shopping the first pick, I think it would be great if the Bengals could package picks and McCarron for Myles Garrett.

Would really love to see this happen as you and Pike mentioned. 

Our #9 pick, AJM which could be considered a 2nd round pick, or first according to some on board. Start there and throw in a comp pick if necessary even. 

Draft party would end early but with a bang. 

[*Go Cards*]

(04-10-2017, 04:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know a lot of people think our roster stinks and we are rebuilding. I don't agree and think 11 draft picks in 2017 only 5 to 7 make the team so in essence 4  to 6 wasted picks. I would love to see is package picks to move up and get a better option. In the end, I would rather have 5 great picks (in 1st 4 rounds) than a bunch of 5th through 7th rounders likely to never make the roster.

I am not sure I like moving up to 4th from 9, but I would love moving up in the 2nd round or even the 3rd all the way to the 2nd to get 2 second round picks.

Agree and have said this the last few years as well, quality over quantity if you are not too far off. 

Could always move AJM for an extra 2nd. Just poking fun we do not need to rehash that argument. lol

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(04-10-2017, 04:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think that would get it done, at least if anywhere close to the trade value chart.

Pick #5 = 1700 pts
Pick #9 = 1350 pts

A 4th comp is valued at 43-44 pts, 5th comp around 27 pts, 6th around 14 pts, 7th at just a point.
All comps combined: 44 + 27 + 14 + 1 = 86 pts.
Add that to 1350 and you're still over 250 pts short.

If the Bengals wanted to move up to #5 from #9 and not give up their 2nd rounder, they'd need to cough up their third rounder (225 pts) too to get close.
Is the 5th overall pick worth the #9, the third rounder, and every comp pick from 4 through 7?

I think if the Bengals were to move up, it'd only be to #7 at best. It costs too much to go beyond that.

What would it take for that #1 pick if we threw AJM in mix. Our #9 and say for arguments sake that AJM is valued at #9 pick in the 2nd round.

How much more would be needed ?

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(04-10-2017, 04:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Me too. Need to meet and talk about our Bengals. I can't wait for the draft party. I am hoping we do something unique this year in round 1 and no not trade our pick...LOL

Absolutely

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(04-10-2017, 05:23 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed about trading back in to Rd 1 to get Cam, but your statement about someone jumping in front of us (New Orleans?) to get Barnett sent a chill down my spine.  I fear they wouldn't take the WR Ross or Davis, but Reuben Foster....and I don't want him. 

Have seen it too many times it seems, or teams just take them. 

Like last year there were several WR's we almost all agreed on and they were all still there coming up to our pick. 

Then bam they vanished. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-11-2017, 12:26 AM)Go Cards Wrote: it is just my opinion that the WR's will be better after getting a year in the system and hopefully Eiffert is full strength which helps immensely. 

Yet agree with you and do not think anybody except AJ is a #1 caliber NFL player. Well Eiffert but he is technically a TE and never know if he will be around.

Believe the Bengals will target a WR early though. Just personally would like the DL and OL to get the early picks and grab one later. 

Then next year would want a WR in 1st round once lines are bolstered. Just me though, build from inside out. 

This makes complete sense, but where do they really need to address on the lines?  

That isn't meant to be a "we are all set there" response...far from it.  The defensive line needs an outside rusher from the RDE spot.  There is really good depth at that spot, and I think they can get a very good player there in the 2nd round.
They have Billings coming back at DT, along with Hardison.  They have Will Clarke as another guy that can rotate inside.  

The offensive line is a different story, but let's assume that Fisher has the RT spot settled.  Andre Smith will be the RG position, and will have competition from Westerman.  Unfortunately, Bodine isn't going anywhere at C.  Even if they did draft a guy like Moton or Asiata, it would be as a Guard and they wouldn't likely be able to push Bodine out in their rookie season.  LG is Bowling, and he should be better with the shoulder repaired.  Kudos to him for sticking it out last season.

LT is the big mystery.  I heard a hysterical analogy on the radio the other day that if they drafted Cam Robinson, it would be like admitting you have an ugly child.  Regardless, I don't think they will draft a player to push Ced at LT.  I believe this is a mistake.  It is probably the 2nd most important position on the offensive line and they have a very shaky answer right now.  Call it stubborn, call it faith, I call it stupid.  Ced would undoubtedly benefit from competition at the position.  If they found a way to get Forrest Lamp or Cam Robinson and Ced were actually able to win the job, then Ced or Gump could move to RG.  Honestly, I don't see any way Ced would beat them out.  I have little to no faith in the guy.  He was just a miss.  

Ultimately, they will live and die with Ced, so I don't see a draft pick being used just for RG of the future with Andre Smith trying to extend his career and Westerman pushing him to start.  

If we use the 2nd round pick on RDE, the first rounder would likely be on offense, and that is where I think Ross could be a huge addition to our team that would help the entire offense.  

[*ochocincos*]

(04-11-2017, 12:49 AM)Go Cards Wrote: What would it take for that #1 pick if we threw AJM in mix. Our #9 and say for arguments sake that AJM is valued at #9 pick in the 2nd round.


How much more would be needed ?

According to the charts I've seen, pick #41 is worth 490 points. So if the Bengals were to trade #9 plus AJM (#41 in the scenario you mention), it'd be ~1840 points.

That would be enough (theoretically) to jump up to #4 overall. And honestly I'd consider it if Solomon Thomas is sitting there at 4.
And that might even make sense if JAX is ready to move on from Bortles, as they would essentially get a QB and just pick 5 spots later.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-11-2017, 08:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This makes complete sense, but where do they really need to address on the lines?  

That isn't meant to be a "we are all set there" response...far from it.  The defensive line needs an outside rusher from the RDE spot.  There is really good depth at that spot, and I think they can get a very good player there in the 2nd round.
They have Billings coming back at DT, along with Hardison.  They have Will Clarke as another guy that can rotate inside.  

The offensive line is a different story, but let's assume that Fisher has the RT spot settled.  Andre Smith will be the RG position, and will have competition from Westerman.  Unfortunately, Bodine isn't going anywhere at C.  Even if they did draft a guy like Moton or Asiata, it would be as a Guard and they wouldn't likely be able to push Bodine out in their rookie season.  LG is Bowling, and he should be better with the shoulder repaired.  Kudos to him for sticking it out last season.

LT is the big mystery.  I heard a hysterical analogy on the radio the other day that if they drafted Cam Robinson, it would be like admitting you have an ugly child.  Regardless, I don't think they will draft a player to push Ced at LT.  I believe this is a mistake.  It is probably the 2nd most important position on the offensive line and they have a very shaky answer right now.  Call it stubborn, call it faith, I call it stupid.  Ced would undoubtedly benefit from competition at the position.  If they found a way to get Forrest Lamp or Cam Robinson and Ced were actually able to win the job, then Ced or Gump could move to RG.  Honestly, I don't see any way Ced would beat them out.  I have little to no faith in the guy.  He was just a miss.  

Ultimately, they will live and die with Ced, so I don't see a draft pick being used just for RG of the future with Andre Smith trying to extend his career and Westerman pushing him to start.  

If we use the 2nd round pick on RDE, the first rounder would likely be on offense, and that is where I think Ross could be a huge addition to our team that would help the entire offense.  

Last year when I wanted a pass rusher and they drafted 2 OLmen everybody said we had to take care of the future. 

Andre has barely played the last few years and has not proven he can stay healthy. Fisher and Ced have not proven anything to me. They argued it was justified when we had a good OL but now that it is porous they do not want to admit their mistake. 

Center is another spot would like drafted personally. But you are correct they probably will not. But would not the ugly child argument be in place if WR was taken since they already drafted Boyd ? 

Billings I love but reports said he was being pushed around handily by second team players last year in camp. Depth could not hurt and RDE could definitely come in handy.  

Guess what give me these opinions is how many sacks the OL gave up and how many sacks the DL generated. Plus the OL lost there two top players and DL lost their leader and is aging drastically at RDE the QB's blindside.

They both need help imo. When the Bengals were good and making playoffs regularly it was when they were getting pressure and protecting QB. Besides a Marvin Jones types can be found in 5th round easier than a dominant lineman imo. 

[*Go Cards*]

(04-11-2017, 09:06 AM)ochocincos Wrote: According to the charts I've seen, pick #41 is worth 490 points. So if the Bengals were to trade #9 plus AJM (#41 in the scenario you mention), it'd be ~1840 points.

That would be enough (theoretically) to jump up to #4 overall. And honestly I'd consider it if Solomon Thomas is sitting there at 4.
And that might even make sense if JAX is ready to move on from Bortles, as they would essentially get a QB and just pick 5 spots later.

and what would need to be added to get the Browns #1 pick out of curiosity ? 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-11-2017, 11:10 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Last year when I wanted a pass rusher and they drafted 2 OLmen everybody said we had to take care of the future. 

Andre has barely played the last few years and has not proven he can stay healthy. Fisher and Ced have not proven anything to me. They argued it was justified when we had a good OL but now that it is porous they do not want to admit their mistake. 

Center is another spot would like drafted personally. But you are correct they probably will not. But would not the ugly child argument be in place if WR was taken since they already drafted Boyd ? 

Billings I love but reports said he was being pushed around handily by second team players last year in camp. Depth could not hurt and RDE could definitely come in handy.  

Guess what give me these opinions is how many sacks the OL gave up and how many sacks the DL generated. Plus the OL lost there two top players and DL lost their leader and is aging drastically at RDE the QB's blindside.

They both need help imo. When the Bengals were good and making playoffs regularly it was when they were getting pressure and protecting QB. Besides a Marvin Jones types can be found in 5th round easier than a dominant lineman imo. 

I was in the same boat as wanting a pass rushing end...for the past three drafts, actually.  I feel good with Billings, Hardison, and the guy from Clemson (senior moment) filling in for Peko and Pat Sims, who I am unsure is under contract. 

The offensive line played MUCH better when Ced was benched.  And that was with an ailing Boling and a RT getting his first NFL action at the spot.  Fisher went from clueless to solid in a short amount of time.  I think he will be the RT of the future and if Andre Smith eats him self out of the potential for another contract, I think Westerman will be a good option.

I am, however, overly concerned about the LT spot and would MUCH rather see the Bengals trade back in to the bottom of the first to get Cam Robinson.  He could push Ced for the starters role at LT and if Ced miraculously won the job, we would have a future all-pro at RG.

The ugly child argument doesn't really fall on Boyd, as he is still the starting slot WR.  We need speed opposite AJ Green to help all the underneath work of the RBs, TEs, and Boyd.  I also love his big play ability.  If AJ Green is running a crossing route, you would imagine  most of the attention would stay on him.  Ross just has mercurial deep speed.  I want to see him catching bombs from Dalton. 

This offense didn't come close to scoring enough points to be considered a championship team last year.  A lot of that falls on the offensive line, Hill sucking, and injuries to Eifert and AJ.  This year, with a new RB, Eifert and AJ Healthy, and a burner like Ross, this offense could be explosive.  

Check out my "Crazy Browns" thread...it addresses LT but is a long shot

[*ochocincos*]

(04-11-2017, 11:11 AM)Go Cards Wrote: and what would need to be added to get the Browns #1 pick out of curiosity ? 

The #1 overall pick is 3000 points. The Bengals would likely also have to give up #9, AJM, and a first next year to move up to #1 overall. Likely have to give up even more than that since the first rounder next year is unknown of where it will slot.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-11-2017, 11:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I was in the same boat as wanting a pass rushing end...for the past three drafts, actually.  I feel good with Billings, Hardison, and the guy from Clemson (senior moment) filling in for Peko and Pat Sims, who I am unsure is under contract. 

The offensive line played MUCH better when Ced was benched.  And that was with an ailing Boling and a RT getting his first NFL action at the spot.  Fisher went from clueless to solid in a short amount of time.  I think he will be the RT of the future and if Andre Smith eats him self out of the potential for another contract, I think Westerman will be a good option.

I am, however, overly concerned about the LT spot and would MUCH rather see the Bengals trade back in to the bottom of the first to get Cam Robinson.  He could push Ced for the starters role at LT and if Ced miraculously won the job, we would have a future all-pro at RG.

The ugly child argument doesn't really fall on Boyd, as he is still the starting slot WR.  We need speed opposite AJ Green to help all the underneath work of the RBs, TEs, and Boyd.  I also love his big play ability.  If AJ Green is running a crossing route, you would imagine  most of the attention would stay on him.  Ross just has mercurial deep speed.  I want to see him catching bombs from Dalton. 

This offense didn't come close to scoring enough points to be considered a championship team last year.  A lot of that falls on the offensive line, Hill sucking, and injuries to Eifert and AJ.  This year, with a new RB, Eifert and AJ Healthy, and a burner like Ross, this offense could be explosive.  

Check out my "Crazy Browns" thread...it addresses LT but is a long shot

Makes sense but still would love Cam Robinson, a elite pass rusher early, a center, and a RB.

[*Go Cards*]

(04-11-2017, 11:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The #1 overall pick is 3000 points. The Bengals would likely also have to give up #9, AJM, and a first next year to move up to #1 overall. Likely have to give up even more than that since the first rounder next year is unknown of where it will slot.

That is too steep for sure. 

Oh well. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-11-2017, 12:38 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Makes sense but still would love Cam Robinson, a elite pass rusher early, a center, and a RB.

The Bengals could trade AJ McCarron to the Browns for their 33rd pick intake cam Robinson there

They can take Barnett Allen or Thomas at number nine.

If they are in love with Mixon they could take him with the 33rd pick.

And grab Lamp with their next second round pick.

It would be nice if the Bengals could somehow get the Cleveland Browns 12 pick this year and keep their 9th pick.

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(04-11-2017, 01:56 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The Bengals could trade AJ McCarron to the Browns for their 33rd pick intake cam Robinson there

They can take Barnett Allen or Thomas at number nine.

If they are in love with Mixon they could take him with the 33rd pick.

And grab Lamp with their next second round pick.

It would be nice if the Bengals could somehow get the Cleveland Browns 12 pick this year and keep their 9th pick.

Love these scenarios and would be stoked if it happened. 

[jj22]

I think it's more likely we trade down. Their might be a rush on qb's at 10, 11, 12, 13 if they slip like it looks like they will. Have to get in front of the Bills.

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(04-11-2017, 11:17 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's more likely we trade down. Their might be a rush on qb's at 10, 11, 12, 13 if they slip like it looks like they will. Have to get in front of the Bills.

Our track record would suggest this as well. 

Liked the last time we did so getting Zeitler later.   Forget was it Sanu or Thompson Bengals drafted with the pick added per trade ?

[jj22]

Thompson, and I agree. It's more likely this is the case. Hate for qb's to slip because it means good D talent is being taken, but maybe it'll work out for us if top qb's are available at 9.

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(04-12-2017, 05:49 PM)jj22 Wrote: Thompson, and I agree. It's more likely this is the case. Hate for qb's to slip because it means good D talent is being taken, but maybe it'll work out for us if top qb's are available at 9.

Could certainly happen and believe another coveted player or two will slip to #9 to possibly create a trade opportunity. 

But if it is the right non QB does slip we should stay pat and draft him imo.  

[Hammerstripes]

(04-11-2017, 11:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The #1 overall pick is 3000 points. The Bengals would likely also have to give up #9, AJM, and a first next year to move up to #1 overall. Likely have to give up even more than that since the first rounder next year is unknown of where it will slot.

That's what the chart says, but since nobody wants to move up this year, you could see a trade that goes for less value then it should:

for instance,

Look at what the Dolphins gave up to move up from  to #3 to get Dion Jordan:

They gave up #12 and #42 to move up to #3.  IF we wanted to go up to #1 to get Garrett, I would think that AJ and the #9 would be nearly enough.  The #1 pick doesn't bring a whole lot when a QB isn't involved.