How many new parts can a unit make work?

[SunsetBengal]

I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft. My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well? As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production. It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB. Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro. However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm. At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft. Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on. Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season. I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

[Au165]

(04-18-2017, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft.  My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well?  As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production.  It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB.  Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro.  However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm.  At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft.  Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on.  Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season.  I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

We kind of did it Andy's rookie year. To be fair, the TE or HB probably would start the year as a back up, so they'd work their way in.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2017, 11:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: We kind of did it Andy's rookie year. To be fair, the TE or HB probably would start the year as a back up, so they'd work their way in.

Sure, Andy and AJ were the new parts, as well as Jay Gruden as OC.  All of the other parts remained the same, particularly the OL, backfield, and TEs.  Meaning that all parts involved in blocking and running game were unchanged.

This year, we are looking at a 40% turnover in OL, a medium possibility of a new primary ball carrier, as well as a new TE.  Not to mention an OC in his second year at the position.  An OC that many on here weren't completely thrilled with, last season.

Sure, it can work, they can all build together.  I'm just saying don't expect no offensive juggernaut on opening day.

[Au165]

(04-18-2017, 12:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, Andy and AJ were the new parts, as well as Jay Gruden as OC.  All of the other parts remained the same, particularly the OL, backfield, and TEs.  Meaning that all parts involved in blocking and running game were unchanged.

This year, we are looking at a 40% turnover in OL, a medium possibility of a new primary ball carrier, as well as a new TE.  Not to mention an OC in his second year at the position.  An OC that many on here weren't completely thrilled with, last season.

Sure, it can work, they can all build together.  I'm just saying don't expect no offensive juggernaut on opening day.

That was Andre's first full year as a starte.r Also, it was that Simpsons first year starting. I agree it'll be tough but it can work.

[BengalsBong]

I agree Andy works best when he is around familiar faces at WR TE. The line is what it is we drafted guys pretty high at the tackle spots so they should work out now that they will be playing spots that they did in college. Andre Smith will be solid at RG as long as he can get push in the running game. He should be very solid at pass protection there. The real question on the line is can Bodine stop the bull rushes and not get pushed back into Daltons lap and give him a pocket to step up into to throw.

As far as drafting guys on O we will need a 3rd RB to replace Burkhead. If Hill does not start producing a good YPC this year they can let the new RB and Gio split the snaps. That most likely wont happen till 4 games into the year or more. We will carry 4 RB just cause of the pounding the position takes and high chance at injury. And Peerman being a special teamer.

At WR we are set Core 40 time was 4.47 compared to Marvin Jones 4.46. We are 5 deep at WR and if we do draft a WR late he will be riding the pine or fighting for a practice squad spot. Andy throws the ball best to faces he knows.

TE is the only spot I am not sure about because of the injury with Tyler. Both backups are good players CJ and Kroft are solid guys for depth coming in for a start now and then. If Tyler is going to bounce back or not will determine if we draft a TE high or not the team and doctors can only answer that. Not that I trust any of the doctors that's been around Tyler lately. The best so called ankle doc cost us a lot of games last year by putting off his surgery.

We moved the ball up and down the field last year it was getting touchdowns that was the issue. Was it the new OC or the new faces at WR or the injury to Tyler. They just need to fix that problem and we will be good to go.

[TGISunday]

Not sure about the changing parts, but the organization has a few loose screws.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2017, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft.  My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well?  As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production.  It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB.  Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro.  However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm.  At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft.  Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on.  Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season.  I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

You think Uzomah would start over OJ Howard Sunset?

I really like Core and Boyd and i think the WR corps should be fine if we don't draft a WR early with bringing back Lafell.

I think Core could be special and he brings that deep threat we need to open up the passing game.

Drafting a RB somewhat high should be a priority to me more than WR and if we do draft Howard he is another WR anyways.

[fredtoast]

The '81 Forty-Niners started three rookies in their defensive backfield and had the #2 defense in the league.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2017, 02:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You think Uzomah would start over OJ Howard Sunset?

I really like Core and Boyd and i think the WR corps should be fine if we don't draft a WR early with bringing back Lafell.

I think Core could be special and he brings that deep threat we need to open up the passing game.

Drafting a RB somewhat high should be a priority to me more than WR and if we do draft Howard he is another WR anyways.

Absolutely, at least to begin the season.  I'm not saying that he wouldn't get reps somewhere in every game, from day one.  Just saying that the Bengals like to work rookies in gradually.

My main point of the post was to show that with a big turnover on the OL, they're likely going to want to keep as much of the offense as consistent as possible.  We're going to have two, really three new faces on the OL.  Sure, we're all familiar with Andre Smith, but we all used to carp and complain about him, as well.  He'll be in a position that he hasn't played since his Freshman year of HS.  Sure, I expect him to pick it up quick, but there will be some adjustment and transition.  As for the Tackles...  We've all been reading about how hard Cedric Ogbuehi has been working this offseason, complete with Hobson articles with comforting quotes to ease our troubled minds into forgetting what we all saw out of him on the field last season.  Same goes with Fisher, not completely sold on him yet, either.

Of all the skill positions, I'm worried about RB the most right now.  Sure, J Hill says that he's abandoning what he had been doing, because it wasn't working.  But c'mon, how in the heck does a guy that excels at being a straight ahead runner ever get away from what he's always been good at?  I'm confident that Gio Bernard will come back from his ACL as best he can, but there are no guarantees.  At least with Burkhead on the roster, we had a dynamic, all-purpose back that could run, block, and catch.  As time goes by, I'm seeing Cook or Fournette being less and less of a possibility to be available, let alone taken by the Bengals in the 1st round.  Hopefully they can land Kamara, or forgive me for saying this, Mixon in the 2nd.

So, yeah, I'm a bit concerned about the prospects for offensive production in at least the first part of the season.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2017, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The '81 Forty-Niners started three rookies in their defensive backfield and had the #2 defense in the league.

Thanks Fred, very comforting.  However, I'm not so concerned about the Bengals defensive Secondary..

[XenoMorph]

(04-18-2017, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft.  My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well?  As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production.  It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB.  Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro.  However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm.  At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft.  Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on.  Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season.  I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

Hewitt is still here right?

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2017, 05:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Hewitt is still here right?

Yes, but look how much they steered the offense away from using him.  I don't have any numbers in front of me, but it sure seemed like his utilization was dramatically decreased.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2017, 04:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Absolutely, at least to begin the season.  I'm not saying that he wouldn't get reps somewhere in every game, from day one.  Just saying that the Bengals like to work rookies in gradually.

My main point of the post was to show that with a big turnover on the OL, they're likely going to want to keep as much of the offense as consistent as possible.  We're going to have two, really three new faces on the OL.  Sure, we're all familiar with Andre Smith, but we all used to carp and complain about him, as well.  He'll be in a position that he hasn't played since his Freshman year of HS.  Sure, I expect him to pick it up quick, but there will be some adjustment and transition.  As for the Tackles...  We've all been reading about how hard Cedric Ogbuehi has been working this offseason, complete with Hobson articles with comforting quotes to ease our troubled minds into forgetting what we all saw out of him on the field last season.  Same goes with Fisher, not completely sold on him yet, either.

Of all the skill positions, I'm worried about RB the most right now.  Sure, J Hill says that he's abandoning what he had been doing, because it wasn't working.  But c'mon, how in the heck does a guy that excels at being a straight ahead runner ever get away from what he's always been good at?  I'm confident that Gio Bernard will come back from his ACL as best he can, but there are no guarantees.  At least with Burkhead on the roster, we had a dynamic, all-purpose back that could run, block, and catch.  As time goes by, I'm seeing Cook or Fournette being less and less of a possibility to be available, let alone taken by the Bengals in the 1st round.  Hopefully they can land Kamara, or forgive me for saying this, Mixon in the 2nd.

So, yeah, I'm a bit concerned about the prospects for offensive production in at least the first part of the season.

I can understand all of this, i just think that if we do draft OJ Howard at 9 we will have to use him and i doubt
Uzi would start over him. Howard is already a fantastic blocker and Uzi struggles there at times. I said it in
another thread that it will be telling whoever we take in the first.

If it is a RB, it shows the coaches are not sold on our guys for the obvious reasons we speak of.

If it is a WR it will be to complement AJ through either size or speed depending on if it is Mike Williams or John
Ross. If is a DE i just hope we don't reach for Taco Charlton cause he is big and fits what we have done in the
past. If it is a LB i am hoping it is one that can cover and rush the passer like Hassan Reddick.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2017, 05:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, but look how much they steered the offense away from using him.  I don't have any numbers in front of me, but it sure seemed like his utilization was dramatically decreased.

He was used far less than the year before to the Offense's demise.

We were much better running the ball with Hewitt out there. Stupid by Zampese.

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-18-2017, 12:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, Andy and AJ were the new parts, as well as Jay Gruden as OC.  All of the other parts remained the same, particularly the OL, backfield, and TEs.  Meaning that all parts involved in blocking and running game were unchanged.

This year, we are looking at a 40% turnover in OL, a medium possibility of a new primary ball carrier, as well as a new TE.  Not to mention an OC in his second year at the position.  An OC that many on here weren't completely thrilled with, last season.

Sure, it can work, they can all build together.  I'm just saying don't expect no offensive juggernaut on opening day.

Agree Sunset,

I'd guess that with the way practice is so limited in the modern NFL we're going to have to start out very vanilla. And that with Zamp doesn't overwhelm me with confidence ! He already suffers from not really knowing what to do IMHO. And him knowing how to build what we have or probably more accurately don't have is scary.

I look for us to be pretty weak on O the first half of season. The defense is going to have to save the day I'd say.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2017, 05:58 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree Sunset,

I'd guess that with the way practice is so limited in the modern NFL we're going to have to start out very vanilla. And that with Zamp doesn't overwhelm me with confidence ! He already suffers from not really knowing what to do IMHO. And him knowing how to build what we have or probably more accurately don't have is scary.

I look for us to be pretty weak on O the first half of season. The defense is going to have to save the day I'd say.

The key to any success, in my mind, is going back to the power runs.  Paul Alexander is going to have to take advantage of the "young, athletic Tackles", and coach them up to haul their butts down field for some second-level blasting on the inside runs.  As for Half-Step Hill, someone needs to remind him that his primary objective is straight ahead, no DWTS moves, just point and shoot.

Maybe, just maybe if that works and develops a little momentum, it will draw some Safeties in and leave AJ open for some one on one coverages.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2017, 05:58 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree Sunset,

I'd guess that with the way practice is so limited in the modern NFL we're going to have to start out very vanilla. And that with Zamp doesn't overwhelm me with confidence ! He already suffers from not really knowing what to do IMHO. And him knowing how to build what we have or probably more accurately don't have is scary.

I look for us to be pretty weak on O the first half of season. The defense is going to have to save the day I'd say.

Yeah, it will take some time on O.

The thing is i have some confidence in the Defense doing just that. Letting Peko and Maualuga go while replacing
them with Billings and Minter was awesome in my eyes. I wouldn't of done it any different. Just what we needed.

A very young DT that is great at stopping the run and can actually rush the passer to go along with a LB that can
do both as well is what we needed. These two are not one trick ponys like Peko and Maualuga were.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2017, 06:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it will take some time on O.

The thing is i have some confidence in the Defense doing just that. Letting Peko and Maualuga go while replacing
them with Billings and Minter was awesome in my eyes. I wouldn't of done it any different. Just what we needed.

A very young DT that is great at stopping the run and can actually rush the passer to go along with a LB that can
do both as well is what we needed. These two are not one trick ponys like Peko and Maualuga were.

Yeah, I'm not so concerned for the defense.  As you said, with Billings and Minter added, the continued development of Vigil, and the emergence of WJIII, the defense should be formidable.  If they get that edge rusher to compete for time on the Right side, that will be the gravy.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-18-2017, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft. My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well? As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production. It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB. Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro. However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm. At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft. Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on. Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season. I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

Considering what they have done at the CB position, makes sense a rookie WR will need to bide his time.

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-18-2017, 06:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I'm not so concerned for the defense.  As you said, with Billings and Minter added, the continued development of Vigil, and the emergence of WJIII, the defense should be formidable.  If they get that edge rusher to compete for time on the Right side, that will be the gravy.

No doubt,

I'm not to worried with the D, at worst I think they'll be average. The offense however has both my eyebrows up ! We of course had well documented O-line woes. Our run game was nonexistent a lot and barely average the rest of the time save the Browns games. Our red-zone flat out sucked and overall we were very inconsistent. 

The O-line still scares me quite a bit ! I hope some how some way they can get it together, but I'm not holding my breath.