Case for Eifert to be TE2 + draft OJ Howard

[*bengalfan74*]

I'm all for Howard, I don't think he's a luxury pick at all. Eifert doesn't look in any way to be a long term NFL option.

[McC]

I'd draft Howard to pair with him, replace him, whatever the case may be. I would be completely on board with the pick.

[Housh]

(04-18-2017, 02:24 PM)depthchart Wrote: I wouldn't Draft OJ Howard to pair with Eifert but instead to Replace Eifert long term.
Maybe they are a Pair for 1 year then let Eifert walk for the Comp pick.
Could also Trade Eifert to an NFC team and never Pair them together.

Eifert will be 27 years old in September and in his 4 years here his Career stats are 123 catches for 1,491 yards and
20 TDs. The TDs stand out but injury during his Youth years are a big concern. Not a lot of yards after 4 years due to injury.

Hard to Plan around injury prone players and AJ Green tends to get injured often too which kills the Offense.
Our 2 best weapons can be watching from the sidelines at any moment due to injury.
I would consider replacing one of our injury prone players (Eifert) with OJ Howard and hope AJ Green can stay healthy for a Playoff run.

My god you are brainwashed.


Just wow

[Essex Johnson]

(04-18-2017, 03:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What other hole(s) do you see, especially if Eifert misses multiple games this year?
MJ will be the starter opposite Dunlap.
Billings will be the starter next to Atkins.
Hill (or Bernard if ready by Week 1) will be the starter at RB.
LaFell is the starter opposite of AJ Green.
Jones, Kirkpatrick, Iloka, and Williams are the starting DBs.
Burfict, Minter, and Vigil/VRey will be the starters at LB.
Ogbuehi, Boling, Bodine, Smith, and Fisher are the starters for OL.

That is a very thin DE and you need more than two for sure plus we drafted two TEs in 2015 that they are still high on.. and as far as LB... Foster can start over Vigil or Rey coming in... but i see DE as very thin right now

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2017, 09:52 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: That is a very thin DE and you need more than two for sure plus we drafted two TEs in 2015 that they are still high on.. and as far as LB... Foster can start over Vigil or Rey coming in... but i see DE as very thin right now

The Bengals do need DEs, but IMO Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton will not be that much better than those available at 41. I'd much rather see a pass catcher in Round 1 and DEs in Round 2 and then sometime after for the second.

When looking at "complete" TEs, the only one really that fits the bill right out of the gate is OJ Howard. The other TEs all have some big area they need to develop before they get to be labeled a "complete" TE. All anyone seems to focus on nowadays is receiving for TEs, but blocking is a huge portion of TE usage in the Bengals system. And to those that say "you can get a blocking TE late in the draft", that's not what I'm saying the Bengals should go for. I'm saying the Bengals need a complete TE that can do both, and the only TE ready to do both at this very moment is OJ Howard. There's a reason he's considered a top 10 prospect and the top TE in a loaded TE class.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2017, 05:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Didn't watch him at the combine, sounds like a Stain lol

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000790247/Myles-Garrett-runs-an-official-4-64-40-yard-dash

It's not as bad as Phoebe in Friends, but it's still clunky.

[Au165]

I still like the group of 3rd-4th round TE's. I also think Kroft is severely under utilized. If given the full time starting job I think he could be a good player. I think Howard is interesting, but I am not forcing it if I have guys rated higher because of a perception of need.

[depthchart]

(04-18-2017, 08:18 PM)Housh Wrote: My god you are brainwashed.


Just wow

I assume you are referring to the "Maybe" let Eifert walk for a "Comp pick" portion of my Post that you Bolded.
Notice the word "Maybe".
I also mentioned trying to trade Eifert and only if OJ Howard was the selection.

Eifert will be hitting the Open market after this season and an Actual decision will have to be made on his Future with the team. Many FACTORS need to be considered in making that decision.

Including "Comp Picks".

Simply recognizing "Comp Picks" as a Factor to consider does not make me a "Yes Man" for the Bengals, Einstein...

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2017, 10:24 AM)depthchart Wrote: I assume you are referring to the "Maybe" let Eifert walk for a "Comp pick" portion of my Post that you Bolded.
Notice the word "Maybe".
I also mentioned trying to trade Eifert and only if OJ Howard was the selection.

Eifert will be hitting the Open market after this season and an Actual decision will have to be made on his Future with the team. Many FACTORS need to be considered in making that decision.

Including "Comp Picks".

Simply recognizing "Comp Picks" as a Factor to consider does not make me a "Yes Man" for the Bengals, Einstein...

I wouldn't call you brainwashed at all. In fact, you're more like Nostradamus because we know it's likely to happen lol

[depthchart]

(04-19-2017, 10:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I wouldn't call you brainwashed at all. In fact, you're more like Nostradamus because we know it's likely to happen lol

I appreciate the support.

I'm as open minded as humanly possible and will change my opinion in mid step if someone makes a point that gets to me.

I have not even decided yet what I want the Bengals to actually do.
Just thinking of Pros and Cons for multiple players right now.

I wait until the very end to start ruling players out and it seems like you are doing the same.
I simply make points, listen to counter points and remain ready for a mind change if someone else is making more sense than me. Changing my mind has changed my life for the better more than once in almost every area of my life.

[Vas Deferens]

(04-19-2017, 11:00 AM)depthchart Wrote: I appreciate the support.

I'm as open minded as humanly possible and will change my opinion in mid step if someone makes a point that gets to me.

I have not even decided yet what I want the Bengals to actually do.
Just thinking of Pros and Cons for multiple players right now.

I wait until the very end to start ruling players out and it seems like you are doing the same.
I simply make points, listen to counter points and remain ready for a mind change if someone else is making more sense than me. Changing my mind has changed my life for the better more than once in almost every area of my life.

You're doing bengalsboard wrong.

Step 1. Cobble together horseminded opinion.
Step 2. Espouse said garbage.
Step 3. Plant healed boots firmly in moist soil. Refuse to take blood pressure medication and really lean into your original position verbatim.

We'll take care of the rest.

Thanks.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-19-2017, 09:25 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals do need DEs, but IMO Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton will not be that much better than those available at 41. I'd much rather see a pass catcher in Round 1 and DEs in Round 2 and then sometime after for the second.

When looking at "complete" TEs, the only one really that fits the bill right out of the gate is OJ Howard. The other TEs all have some big area they need to develop before they get to be labeled a "complete" TE. All anyone seems to focus on nowadays is receiving for TEs, but blocking is a huge portion of TE usage in the Bengals system. And to those that say "you can get a blocking TE late in the draft", that's not what I'm saying the Bengals should go for. I'm saying the Bengals need a complete TE that can do both, and the only TE ready to do both at this very moment is OJ Howard. There's a reason he's considered a top 10 prospect and the top TE in a loaded TE class.

First, I totally disagree on Barnett.. he is an impact edge rusher in same mind set as Howard is an impact catching tight end.. both are not perfect (Howard not a very good blocker from what I have read, Barnett not great against the run).  I just feel with age of MJ, lack of production the last few years at DE and the young talent we seem to have at TE and still having Eifert now on the team, i think organization will prefer the edge rusher over TE.  

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o.j.-howard?id=2557856

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2017, 11:00 AM)depthchart Wrote: I appreciate the support.

I'm as open minded as humanly possible and will change my opinion in mid step if someone makes a point that gets to me.

I have not even decided yet what I want the Bengals to actually do.
Just thinking of Pros and Cons for multiple players right now.

I wait until the very end to start ruling players out and it seems like you are doing the same.
I simply make points, listen to counter points and remain ready for a mind change if someone else is making more sense than me. Changing my mind has changed my life for the better more than once in almost every area of my life.

Yep. The real reason people are getting so mad about the thought of OJ Howard is not so much about OJ Howard but the thought of seeing another good first rounder (when healthy) leave in FA. You (and those of us also mentioning Howard) are simply trying to be realistic in knowing that it very well could happen and the Bengals would be in a difficult spot if the TEs in 2018 happen to be Tyler Kroft, CJ Uzomah, and a mid-round second-year TE drafted this year.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2017, 11:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First, I totally disagree on Barnett.. he is an impact edge rusher in same mind set as Howard is an impact catching tight end.. both are not perfect (Howard not a very good blocker from what I have read, Barnett not great against the run).  I just feel with age of MJ, lack of production the last few years at DE and the young talent we seem to have at TE and still having Eifert now on the team, i think organization will prefer the edge rusher over TE.  

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o.j.-howard?id=2557856

You might not be reading enough then...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-o-j-howard-te-alabama/

• Graded positively as a run-blocker each season since 2014, had highest run-blocking grade among all tight ends in 2016.
• Looks to finish blocks, very tough for smaller defenders to shed once engaged. Makes sure play is past him before letting up.Very effective on frontside of outside zone runs.
• Quick enough out of the snap to execute reach blocks, works well off combos and is effective moving up into the second level. Earned 11 positive grades this season while blocking on outside zone versus zero negative grades.
• Doesn’t just blindly dive on cut blocks. Appears to consciously seek out the defenders legs, will take an extra step on his lunge if need be.
• Great downfield lead blocker. Takes good angles, athletic enough to stay in front of the run and bullies smaller defensive backs.
  

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/03/06/cleveland-browns-o-j-howard-impresses-at-combine/

Quote:The following video is technically a Myles Garrett scouting video, but it can also be viewed as an O.J. Howard blocking highlight reel as Garrett did not fare so well against Howard. Look for Howard on each play and you will see why.

Video in which the quote in the above article is referring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qmOAe_QK0

Also, why do you disagree about Barnett? Just because he produced in college doesn't mean he would produce in the NFL. A majority of analysts have expressed concern he doesn't have elite traits to be a top-notch DE. It's supported via a sub-par showing in both the Combine and Pro Day.
And you mention he's not good against the run, but he actually is, and that's why he's considered higher.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-derek-barnett-edge-tennessee/

• Plays with good pad level in the run game, allowing him to shoot gaps, disrupt runs and break free on twists and stunts
• Wins on first contact more often than not in the run game, jarring blockers backward
• Can overpower tight ends when lined up at head up (6-tech), can be dominant run defender in that role
  

The concern with Barnett is much more in the area to be a double-digit sack master. In fact, I think he'll end up being a 6-8 sacks-a-year guy and good run defender. But I think that same quality DE can be found in Round 2. A complete TE like Howard cannot.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-19-2017, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You might not be reading enough then...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-o-j-howard-te-alabama/

• Graded positively as a run-blocker each season since 2014, had highest run-blocking grade among all tight ends in 2016.
• Looks to finish blocks, very tough for smaller defenders to shed once engaged. Makes sure play is past him before letting up.Very effective on frontside of outside zone runs.
• Quick enough out of the snap to execute reach blocks, works well off combos and is effective moving up into the second level. Earned 11 positive grades this season while blocking on outside zone versus zero negative grades.
• Doesn’t just blindly dive on cut blocks. Appears to consciously seek out the defenders legs, will take an extra step on his lunge if need be.
• Great downfield lead blocker. Takes good angles, athletic enough to stay in front of the run and bullies smaller defensive backs.
  

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2017/03/06/cleveland-browns-o-j-howard-impresses-at-combine/
Video in which the quote in the above article is referring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qmOAe_QK0

Also, why do you disagree about Barnett? Just because he produced in college doesn't mean he would produce in the NFL. A majority of analysts have expressed concern he doesn't have elite traits to be a top-notch DE. It's supported via a sub-par showing in both the Combine and Pro Day.
And you mention he's not good against the run, but he actually is, and that's why he's considered higher.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-derek-barnett-edge-tennessee/

• Plays with good pad level in the run game, allowing him to shoot gaps, disrupt runs and break free on twists and stunts
• Wins on first contact more often than not in the run game, jarring blockers backward
• Can overpower tight ends when lined up at head up (6-tech), can be dominant run defender in that role
  

The concern with Barnett is much more in the area to be a double-digit sack master. In fact, I think he'll end up being a 6-8 sacks-a-year guy and good run defender. But I think that same quality DE can be found in Round 2. A complete TE like Howard cannot.

So we have differing opinions on Howard,i could have added that there is a real concern on his dedication etc.... but you keep saying we can get a good DE in 2nd round. we can also get a good TE in 2nd round such as Njoku or Engram in 2nd round, again not like Howard is not the only quality TE out there either...... but this is spiraling a bit.. the point was need based and I think I made a strong argument that we are more need based at Defense End with #9 pick than TE

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2017, 11:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First, I totally disagree on Barnett.. he is an impact edge rusher in same mind set as Howard is an impact catching tight end.. both are not perfect (Howard not a very good blocker from what I have read, Barnett not great against the run).  I just feel with age of MJ, lack of production the last few years at DE and the young talent we seem to have at TE and still having Eifert now on the team, i think organization will prefer the edge rusher over TE.  

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o.j.-howard?id=2557856

Barnett is a fine pass rusher and would welcome the pick but the people speaking of Howard not being a very good
run blocker are idiots. No one is better in this entire draft according to PFF as Ocho here shows, i know it is PFF but
still, he is a very willing blocker, the best in this draft.

Might as well not take a TE at all if we are so worried about blocking. The deepest TE draft of all time and all of them
are terrible at blocking including the best of all of them, OJ Howard.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2017, 12:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So we have differing opinions on Howard,i could have added that there is a real concern on his dedication etc.... but you keep saying we can get a good DE in 2nd round. we can also get a good TE in 2nd round such as Njoku or Engram in 2nd round, again not like Howard is not the only quality TE out there either...... but this is spiraling a bit.. the point was need based and I think I made a strong argument that we are more need based at Defense End with #9 pick than TE

Njoku and Engram aren't near the blockers that Howard is. Also, I don't think Njoku is there at 41. The Bengals are going to give a TE that can block more offensive snaps than a receiving-only TE.

I don't disagree with you that DE is more of a need than TE this year (assuming Eifert stays healthy), but the Bengals don't draft purely on need in Round 1. They take BPA in Round 1. They also look to draft a future replacement in Round 1 if a starter is expected to enter FA in a year or two. Eifert is set to hit FA sooner than Dunlap and MJ.

[depthchart]

(04-19-2017, 11:32 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: You're doing bengalsboard wrong.

Step 1.   Cobble together horseminded opinion.
Step 2.   Espouse said garbage.
Step 3.   Plant healed boots firmly in moist soil.  Refuse to take blood pressure medication and really lean into your original position verbatim.

We'll take care of the rest.  

Thanks.

You are winning me over on this.

I may have to give it a try.

Once I type something I'll never Blink or Bend on my stance no matter what.
Go down with the Ship if I have to.

                                                               

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2017, 12:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So we have differing opinions on Howard,i could have added that there is a real concern on his dedication etc.... but you keep saying we can get a good DE in 2nd round. we can also get a good TE in 2nd round such as Njoku or Engram in 2nd round, again not like Howard is not the only quality TE out there either...... but this is spiraling a bit.. the point was need based and I think I made a strong argument that we are more need based at Defense End with #9 pick than TE

Not if you want a DE that can do it all like a Jordan Willis. We can get this guy in the 2nd who can rush the passer
and stop the run, he could play all 3 downs, unlike Barnett who is a fine pass rusher as we agree, but a poor run
stopper. I like Engram as i have said but he is barely 6'3". I doubt we draft a TE that short after Orson Charles.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2017, 12:31 PM)depthchart Wrote: You are winning me over on this.

I may have to give it a try.

Once I type something I'll never Blink or Bend on my stance no matter what.
Go down with the Ship if I have to.

                                                               

Don't listen to him man.