Comparing Front Office Sizes in the AFC North

[THE PISTONS]

With the Draft nearly upon us...lets take a look at the people who will be making these selections:

Steelers:
The Steelers have 19 people in their 'Football Operations' Department.
http://www.steelers.com/team/front-office.html

UPDATE: As of 3-3-2019 the Steelers have 20 people in their 'Football Operations' Department.

Bengals:
The Bengals have 8 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.
http://www.bengals.com/team/staff-directory.html

UPDATE: As of 3-3-2019 the Bengals still have 8 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.

Ravens:
 The Ravens have 25 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/front-office.html

Update: As of 3-3-2019 the Ravens have 30 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.

Browns:
The Browns have 32 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office.html

Update: As of 3-3-2019 the Browns have 35 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department and that doesn't even count Dorsey and DePodesta.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-24-2017, 04:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With the Draft nearly upon us...lets take a look at the people who will be making these selections:

Steelers:
The Steelers have 19 people in their 'Football Operations' Department.
http://www.steelers.com/team/front-office.html

Bengals:
The Bengals have 9 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.
http://www.bengals.com/team/staff-directory.html

Ravens:
The Ravens have 25 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/front-office.html

Before you discount that numbers matter...both of these teams have won 2 Super Bowls each since we've won a playoff game and they've appeared in a combined 6!

Browns:
The Browns have 32 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office.html

You'd think for a team that supposedly puts so much emphasis on the draft that the Bengals would have a bigger scouting department. Or maybe the nine they have are all just the best of the best and it's about quality, not quantity

[CageTheBengal]

The Browns lose the most and have the most so how does that play into things? You'd think one of those 32 people would know how to land a draft pick.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-24-2017, 04:06 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: The Browns lose the most and have the most so how does that play into things? You'd think one of those 32 people would know how to land a draft pick.

I think it's a fairly recent thing for the Browns. They brought in a baseball guy in DePodesta who is trying to apply analytics to football.

I think it's crazy to bring in a baseball guy to run a football team. They're just backwards.

Then, last year they dumped most of their veterans and started an insane amount of rookies. ie They essentially tanked for the 1st pick...but there wasn't a dominant QB.

[THE PISTONS]

While we can bash the Browns...and they deserve it...we have 9 scouts and haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-24-2017, 04:06 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: The Browns lose the most and have the most so how does that play into things? You'd think one of those 32 people would know how to land a draft pick.

Pretty sure that it wasn't the case before they got the baseball FO guys. Browns have a ton of picks the next two drafts and probably the best OL in the division right now. Wouldn't be surprised if they start looking pretty good on the field in the next year or two.

[THE PISTONS]

With their offensive line...the right move is to take Cook at 12 and have a Good to Great offensive line and a good RB.

Then, have Coleman at WR and hope that Gordon comes back. Take Garrett 1 and have a good pass rusher.

But...they're the Browns and will probably reach for a QB at 12 and miss.

[Derrick]

(04-24-2017, 04:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: While we can bash the Browns...and they deserve it...we have 9 scouts and haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years...

It is also quite likely that some of the 9 are Mike Brown's relatives; senior citizens who think the NFL is like it was in the 50's; or both. When you stake your franchise-fortunes on the draft and eschew FA, you had better have a top notch group in charge all day...everyday. Do the Bengals?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-24-2017, 04:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With their offensive line...the right move is to take Cook at 12 and have a Good to Great offensive line and a good RB.

Then, have Coleman at WR and hope that Gordon comes back. Take Garrett 1 and have a good pass rusher.

But...they're the Browns and will probably reach for a QB at 12 and miss.

Davis or Williams at 12 for the Browns makes a lot of sense. They need a good WR to pair with Coleman.

[Housh]

This would be a good thing to research.

More people in a perfect world mean that theres more minds you can bounce ideas off of and get constructive criticism. On the other hand it would also mean more fighting to come to conclusions.


If I were to guess I would guess there is no statistical significant in how many people you have in your front office, and how it helps win superbowls. Any observed correlation in my thinking would be completely random.



But you never know. After 50 years maybe we should try new stuff

[Au165]

Honestly, I don't think FO has been our issue as far as having the players. I think the issue has been the coaches ability to use them. No one was complaining after the drafts that built the core of this team and we were winning.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-24-2017, 05:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: Honestly, I don't think FO has been our issue as far as having the players. I think the issue has been the coaches ability to use them. No one was complaining after the drafts that built the core of this team and we were winning.

It's been about three years since they had a goodish draft, though. Depending on how this draft goes, it could be 4.

That's a long time to not draft well AND get worse in FA.

[Au165]

(04-24-2017, 05:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's been about three years since they had a goodish draft, though. Depending on how this draft goes, it could be 4.

That's a long time to not draft well AND get worse in FA.

.....But they have done the same thing with a similar, actually slightly bigger, staff. So no one complained when we built a good team that got us to the playoffs. Everyone goes through ups and downs with drafting. The Ravens have actually been pretty bad the last 5 or so years drafting wise. Steelers have been hit or miss as well.

Drafting is a crap shot I'd say our run of good drafts with such a small staff show that it is just a shot in the dark for the most part.

[J24]

Its sad that the son of Paul brown ( the most revolutionary and renaissance man in modern professional sports) won't change any of his clearly failed ways or take any risks what's so ever.
 Football is going to have a major change in the next 10 to 20 years to do the sport becoming more global. The talent pool will increase significantly;So What will happen to the scouting department then? Will  it increase or stay relativity the same to what it is now?     

[depthchart]

(04-24-2017, 05:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: Honestly, I don't think FO has been our issue as far as having the players. I think the issue has been the coaches ability to use them. No one was complaining after the drafts that built the core of this team and we were winning.

That small Front Office has done a lot right.

Think of how many QBs the Browns have drafted since we traded away Carson Palmer.
With their first try at a QB after Palmer the Bengals got Dalton then a few years later AJ McCarron.
Excellent results with minimal tries.
The Browns have used multiple first round picks on Clowns since Palmer left the Bengals and still are in QB trouble.

Similar issue with our running backs.
Jeremy Hill and Gio Bernard are both second round picks that have done well.
Good results with minimal tries.

Also replaced Sanu & Jones decently last year with Lafell & Boyd plus Core.

They still have to get the O-line right but they got a good look at what they have last year.
I have a feeling they will understand what they will have to do and do it with the O-line too.

[*bengalfan74*]

The Bengals are among the smallest staffs in the NFL if not the smallest. The Bengals have one of if not the longest playoff droughts in the NFL.

You do the math

[Housh]

(04-24-2017, 06:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Bengals are among the smallest staffs in the NFL if not the smallest. The Bengals have one of if not the longest playoff droughts in the NFL.

You do the math

The variance of FO sizes throughout the league compared to the success would have me believe there is no math to do.


We are just victims of some bad freaking luck.

[*Synric*]

The Bengals coaching staff is a major part of the scouting process which helps keep the FO on a smaller scale. Before we say how a this is a bad idea remember that the Bengals have used this strategy in recent years to build one of the deepest rosters in the NFL. Coaches in the scouting process has also been mentioned by every coach that has left the Bengals for a HC job as an idea they want to steal... (Most recently mentioned by Vance Joesph).

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2017, 06:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Bengals are among the smallest staffs in the NFL if not the smallest. The Bengals have one of if not the longest playoff droughts in the NFL.

You do the math

What math?

What I see is the worst team in the AFCN has the biggest front office.

Please show the math you are talking about.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-24-2017, 04:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With the Draft nearly upon us...lets take a look at the people who will be making these selections:

Steelers:
The Steelers have 19 people in their 'Football Operations' Department.
http://www.steelers.com/team/front-office.html

Bengals:
The Bengals have 9 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.
http://www.bengals.com/team/staff-directory.html

Ravens:
 RTheavens have 25 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/front-office.html

Before you discount that numbers matter...both of these teams have won 2 Super Bowls each since we've won a playoff game and they've appeared in a combined 6!

Browns:
The Browns have 32 people in their 'Player Personnel' Department:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office.html

See...this is the shit that makes me vote you where I did in the awards thread.


Yes...those numbers do matter. The more eyes watching...the better. Plus...our coaches have to do more scouting....takes away from their day to day coaching duties....which may explain some things.