Dont forget our OLINE still blows

[OrlandoBengal]

(04-25-2017, 12:47 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: we need to draft a lineman in the draft.  at least one, if not two.  especially with 11 draft picks, we can afford to pick up a couple linemen.

Unfortunately, this is not the draft to be looking for offensive linemen.  I saw a quote from Gil Brandt the other day that said this is the worst draft for linemen he has ever seen.  Not just a lack of quality at the top, but overall depth as you go through the various rounds.

[*Go Cards*]

Hopefully we draft a couple good ones.

If not it is dicey at best. Will be good to have Boling healthy again though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-25-2017, 01:04 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Unfortunately, this is not the draft to be looking for offensive linemen.  I saw a quote from Gil Brandt the other day that said this is the worst draft for linemen he has ever seen.  Not just a lack of quality at the top, but overall depth as you go through the various rounds.

Luckily there are some good Centers which is our biggest need anyways IMHO.

[3wt]

(04-25-2017, 08:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Rather than pile on, I will add this:  If you actually go position by position, the line should be better in every spot except LT.  I realize that is a big exception, but look down the line:

LG:  Boling, played most of last season with a tear in his shoulder.  TJ Johnson backup.
C:  Bodine, actually had his best season and should be better.  TJ Johnson backup.
RG:  Andre Smith, big, strong RG like Bobbie Williams.  No more finesse.  Power.  Westerman backup.
RT:  Jake Fisher.  Played decent once he was given this spot.  Should be much better in year 2 at the position and with an entire camp and preseason preparing for the spot.

LT is the big "what if".  That is why I hope the Bengals are able to slide in Rd 1, draft Ross, and then trade back in to Rd 1 and get Robinson.  They could use the 2nd rounder acquired by sliding in Rd 1 and a 4th round pick to trade back in to Rd 1.  He would compete with Ced at LT.  If Ced somehow beats him at LT, he becomes the heir apparent at RG and probably starts there.  He has the tools to be an All-Pro RG, but I would imagine he would win the job at LT.  And you would have your LT for what amounts to peanuts for five years under contract.  

Draft Elflein after that and you have an offensive line with more power at the LT, C, RT, and RG position than you had at the start of last season.  I don't know about all of you, but I got really sick of watching this team struggle to gain one yard at the goal line or short yardage.

I agree with this in principle.   I'm hoping that Smith makes an excellent guard.  The only lineman I think we could not afford to lose was Whit.   I think we should have front loaded a deal he could except and given him a 3 year deal he could live with.  Would have been worth the money.  I hated losing Zeitler, but I think Andre could be a good enough replacement - though I doubt he is able to cover for the players on either side of him like Zeitler did.

Your point about Boling was valid.   I'm just hoping against hope Og pulls it together and lives up to the vision Alexander had of him when he was drafted.

It will be interesting anyway - at least initially.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-25-2017, 04:28 PM)3wt Wrote: I agree with this in principle.   I'm hoping that Smith makes an excellent guard.  The only lineman I think we could not afford to lose was Whit.   I think we should have front loaded a deal he could except and given him a 3 year deal he could live with.  Would have been worth the money.  I hated losing Zeitler, but I think Andre could be a good enough replacement - though I doubt he is able to cover for the players on either side of him like Zeitler did.

Your point about Boling was valid.   I'm just hoping against hope Og pulls it together and lives up to the vision Alexander had of him when he was drafted.

It will be interesting anyway - at least initially.

There's big dropoff from Whitworth to Ced.

From Zeitler to Smith too...although maybe Smith is a better run blocker than Zeitler was. When Smith was drafted, some reports thought he had All-Pro Guard potential. It would be nice to have a big road-grader of a Guard.

Good point on Boling.

Bodine was improving some. Hopefully we add a C in the draft to compete with him.

Fisher was improving too. He just doesn't see durable.

IF they are all healthy, the unit should be ok. 1 injury and we could be in shambles.

[Millhouse]

The o-line is the biggest "wait n see" group of the team. No way I am convinced they will be better than last year. But at the same time if the planets are aligned, a few chickens sacrificed to Jobu, and if Fred & Bfine can agree on everything, then there is a chance.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-25-2017, 08:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Rather than pile on, I will add this:  If you actually go position by position, the line should be better in every spot except LT.  I realize that is a big exception, but look down the line:

LG:  Boling, played most of last season with a tear in his shoulder.  TJ Johnson backup.
C:  Bodine, actually had his best season and should be better.  TJ Johnson backup.
RG:  Andre Smith, big, strong RG like Bobbie Williams.  No more finesse.  Power.  Westerman backup.
RT:  Jake Fisher.  Played decent once he was given this spot.  Should be much better in year 2 at the position and with an entire camp and preseason preparing for the spot.

LT is the big "what if".  That is why I hope the Bengals are able to slide in Rd 1, draft Ross, and then trade back in to Rd 1 and get Robinson.  They could use the 2nd rounder acquired by sliding in Rd 1 and a 4th round pick to trade back in to Rd 1.  He would compete with Ced at LT.  If Ced somehow beats him at LT, he becomes the heir apparent at RG and probably starts there.  He has the tools to be an All-Pro RG, but I would imagine he would win the job at LT.  And you would have your LT for what amounts to peanuts for five years under contract.  

Draft Elflein after that and you have an offensive line with more power at the LT, C, RT, and RG position than you had at the start of last season.  I don't know about all of you, but I got really sick of watching this team struggle to gain one yard at the goal line or short yardage.

That's a LOT of Kool Aid you're drinking there, man.


-Boling should be better.
-Bodine had his best season, but reaching that bar is awfully easy with how bad he was. Still can't snap the ball well.
-Smith was bad in 2015, terrible in 2016 (before he got hurt), and has never played Guard before. Oh, and he's coming off a torn triceps that needed surgery.
-Fisher was not decent when he was given the spot. He ended up having to rotate out with 33-year-old journeyman Winston, who performed noticeably better despite being mediocre at best.

Of course ignoring the fact that the Bengals are going from All-Pro LT to probably the worst T I have ever seen play last year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-25-2017, 08:48 PM)Millhouse Wrote: The o-line is the biggest "wait n see" group of the team. No way I am convinced they will be better than last year. But at the same time if the planets are aligned, a few chickens sacrificed to Jobu, and if Fred & Bfine can agree on everything, then there is a chance.

Are you telling me Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball!

[lostpoet2]

Yeah, but because Mikey burned the first two 2015 picks on tackles, the goal through 2018 is to put together a winning team with a sh!tty offensive line.

[NATI BENGALS]

High ceiling low floor with our starting group.

If it clicks for Ogbuehi and Fisher we could be pretty good.

If Andre stays true with his durability woes Ogbuehi plays like last year and Bodine doesnt step it up... Watch out we may be playing for a top 5 pick in 2018.

[Alleyviper13]

(04-25-2017, 08:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't worry.  Alexander will fix it.

We probably won't have one of the best lines in the league, but it will be in the top half of the league.

I hope so.

[magikod]

I think our offensive line will surprise people this upcoming season.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-25-2017, 09:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's a LOT of Kool Aid you're drinking there, man.


-Boling should be better.
-Bodine had his best season, but reaching that bar is awfully easy with how bad he was. Still can't snap the ball well.
-Smith was bad in 2015, terrible in 2016 (before he got hurt), and has never played Guard before. Oh, and he's coming off a torn triceps that needed surgery.
-Fisher was not decent when he was given the spot. He ended up having to rotate out with 33-year-old journeyman Winston, who performed noticeably better despite being mediocre at best.

Of course ignoring the fact that the Bengals are going from All-Pro LT to probably the worst T I have ever seen play last year.

I ignored LT by starting a paragraph with "LT is a big what if"?

Fisher was dramatically improved over when he first arrived, and I also like his attitude.  You can say he wasn't decent, but the success of Burkhead around his side wasn't a fluke.  I think he takes his craft seriously and will be a very solid RT this season. 

I started another thread in the draft section (Things I think I know....) and I mentioned how Smith is actually more of a backup RT than a starter at RG at this point.  The Bengals are very high on Alex Redmond and he will compete with Christian Westerman.  I was worried about Smith as well, having only had 2 of his seasons go without injury.   Either way, I think it anyone was drinking the Kool Aid, it was those that think Zeitler was a Pro Bowl talent at RG.  In his contract year, he wasn't much of a run blocker and he is only slightly above average as a pass blocker.  He is a slightly above average RG.  Cleveland overpaid tremendously.  I don't think Bengals fans will miss him at all.

As for Whit, who I love for his years of service,  he is way up there in years and they had to have a plan to move on without him.  If Ced plays like they think he can this year, they will look like geniuses for drafting him when they did.  

[Striped4war]

(04-25-2017, 07:23 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Looks good to me.

Hilarious!  Just one question,,who is the stop sign? Lol

[Striped4war]

I don't think our line will be bad in general.If it does it will be because Ogboui can't pull his weight in the NFL or Bodein still not cutting the mustard even in a contract year.I like the thought of putting Andre Smith there at RG.I miss the big boy run blocker type there in that position (ala Bobbie Williams) .I got complete trust Fisher will be a stud for us at RT.He came in and held it down last year when nobody else could.Hes only going to get better.

[OrlandoBengal]

(04-25-2017, 09:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's a LOT of Kool Aid you're drinking there, man.


-Boling should be better.
-Bodine had his best season, but reaching that bar is awfully easy with how bad he was. Still can't snap the ball well.
-Smith was bad in 2015, terrible in 2016 (before he got hurt), and has never played Guard before. Oh, and he's coming off a torn triceps that needed surgery.
-Fisher was not decent when he was given the spot. He ended up having to rotate out with 33-year-old journeyman Winston, who performed noticeably better despite being mediocre at best.

Of course ignoring the fact that the Bengals are going from All-Pro LT to probably the worst T I have ever seen play last year.

It is also worth noting that PFF has graded Smith consistently worse, year after year, since 2012.  Other than blind optimism, I don't get how people are excited about him playing a completely new position with an already declining skill set.

[sonofstat]

If you were to look at it logically then , yes.. we could be in worse shape than last years poor play with the most experienced starters coming back from injury, two unproven young bookend OT's and Bodine (slowly moving from mediocre to moderate...at this rate he'll be All Pro by 2025)

However if being a fan was logical I'd have sold out and bought a Brady jersey years ago.

I say we break the record for least sacks given up in a 16 week season and AD is barely touched all year.

This could be down to the OL or most likely down to the new offensive scheme Ken Zampese is forced to employ which sees the bengals run the ball on 513 consecutive snaps to start the season plus utilize a unique blocking scheme with 4 blocking FB's in front of Jeremy Hill - none of which he simply follows into the running lane.

The only side effect of this offensive shift is the premature retirement of Kevin Huber after week 7 due to his punting leg falling off due to overuse.

[Benton]

Our line is going to be better this year. Not that that's saying a lot as the line was crap last year... but...

Few OL come in their first year or two and dominate. Our recently drafted tackles have had some time to condition, train and get coached. They'll be loads better. Bodine has gotten better every year. The guys have had longer to gel.

I'm not worried about the OL.

And even if I was, there's nothing we can do at this point that would make next year better. The likelihood of a draft pick coming in and outplaying someone with 2+ years experience — yes, even Bodine — is very, very low.

[sonofstat]

(04-26-2017, 11:38 AM)Benton Wrote: Our line is going to be better this year. Not that that's saying a lot as the line was crap last year... but...

Few OL come in their first year or two and dominate. Our recently drafted tackles have had some time to condition, train and get coached. They'll be loads better. Bodine has gotten better every year. The guys have had longer to gel.

I'm not worried about the OL.

And even if I was, there's nothing we can do at this point that would make next year better. The likelihood of a draft pick coming in and outplaying someone with 2+ years experience — yes, even Bodine — is very, very low.

I would disagree with this point.

Bodine and Fisher have never played with Andre as a RG, Andre has never played RG.  Boling spent pretty much his whole career to date with Whit on his left...now its Ced.

Yes , none of them are individually rookies but the unit as a whole has not had anytime together.

It's one thing i hope the coaching staff do in the preseason actually...let the 'starting' OL spend more than a handful of snaps together outside of game 3...think they need the time to gel.

[Luvnit2]

(04-26-2017, 11:57 AM)sonofstat Wrote: I would disagree with this point.

Bodine and Fisher have never played with Andre as a RG, Andre has never played RG.  Boling spent pretty much his whole career to date with Whit on his left...now its Ced.

Yes , none of them are individually rookies but the unit as a whole has not had anytime together.

It's one thing i hope the coaching staff do in the preseason actually...let the 'starting' OL spend more than a handful of snaps together outside of game 3...think they need the time to gel.

Yes, I agree a OL needs time to gel, but I would argue a healthy OL practicing together for 30+ days priot to game one is plenty of time to gel if they can stay on the field and work together (stay healthy).

AS for AS, yes he has a new position, but yes also he was hands down our best run blocker, better than Zeitler, Boling and Whittworth. Smith had struggles with speed rushers on the outside, he never had issues moving DL backwards on running plays. AS could improve our run game and my hope is with the ability for the center to help him inside, he cn be a good pass blocker also. I liken this type of move to moving a CB to safety as they age, some great results for guys doing this in the past. Guys like Rod Woodson for example.