Thus would be a perfect year for Wyche to help out Zamp.g

[Au165]

(05-08-2017, 02:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: Except.....I don't recall anyone saying he would be leading the offense....thought we were just talking about consulting....also, there are exceptions to every rule.  I'm telling you right now, Dick LeBeau was, and is a successful DC in his 70's as is Monte Kiffin.

The fact remains, 20 some odd years later, they are still using A LOT of the things he came up with.  Stop selling the guy short.  He's probably forgotten more about football innovation than Mediocre Marv and His Merry Band of Tenured Bums will ever know.....mainly, winning postseason football. :andy:

Interesting that offensive coordinators don't tend to have the same shelf life as defensive. As to your two examples neither has been more than average for 10 years. Just because they are using concepts doesn't mean he will still be effective, as I said the guy who invented the forward pass doesn't mean he can successfully apply it to today's game. As for the comparing to Marvin, your just oging off on a tangent and it has nothing to do with this topic.

The guy could give advice I am sure, but not sure it really makes much of a difference in the grand scheme and would be more publicity stunt than anything.

[Sled21]

Dick LeBeau has stayed in the game, Sam has been gone from it for how long now? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Sam Wyche fan, but there is not a clearer way to state to your team that you don't trust your OC than to start bringing in consultants to "help" his offense..... I thought Zampese did ok last year with what he had to work with. This year he will have more and I expect more.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-08-2017, 03:18 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Dick LeBeau has stayed in the game, Sam has been gone from it for how long now? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Sam Wyche fan, but there is not a clearer way to state to your team that you don't trust your OC than to start bringing in consultants to "help" his offense..... I thought Zampese did ok last year with what he had to work with. This year he will have more and I expect more.

Sam was still coaching, albeit at the high school level, until around a year ago.  He coached as recently as 2005, I think it was, as Bills QB coach.  He took a job as an analyst, and coached for free at Greenville-Pickens High while doing that.  Then, he had the throat thing where he lost his voice, but he continued on coaching until the heart transplant.  I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think he may have intentions of getting back to the sidelines.  If you Facebook, he has a page called Coach Sam Wyche.  He swings by every now and again and drops a line.

All of that said, I was just adding some info on Sam to the conversation, and pointing out some errors in thought regarding him.  There have been several articles written on him over the years, and quite a bit during his health scare....and every single one you read points to his razor sharp football mind.  If Zamp seeks a little guidance, this wouldn't be as bad of an idea as some are making it out to be in their quest to never be wrong.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-08-2017, 02:58 PM)Au165 Wrote: Interesting that offensive coordinators don't tend to have the same shelf life as defensive. As to your two examples neither has been more than average for 10 years. Just because they are using concepts doesn't mean he will still be effective, as I said the guy who invented the forward pass doesn't mean he can successfully apply it to today's game. As for the comparing to Marvin, your just oging off on a tangent and it has nothing to do with this topic.

The guy could give advice I am sure, but not sure it really makes much of a difference in the grand scheme and would be more publicity stunt than anything.

Not really, name one innovation to the game Marv has brought........but we trust him to lead this team to a Super Bowl....or at least Son of Paul does.


Sam was not only innovative, but he was a gambler, and was a visionary......far ahead of his time.  From what I've read about him, the guy still draws up plays.  You never know, until you actively seek the answer.  Sam has been sold short his whole life, had credit taken from him for his ideas, it's nothing new.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-08-2017, 12:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: He is doing great with his transplant, I follow him on Facebook.  Sam had been keepinig in shape, but had a bad ticker, it's fixed now, and he's getting stronger with each day.


According to coach, they have buried the hatchet.


You mean like the facets of his offense they are still running today?  Typically, I would agree, but an innovator is an innovator.  Sam still studies the game, keeps current, and often even adds insight to today's goings on.  Sam even offered a couple of years ago to help tutor Dalton along, because he "liked what he saw" in Andy, but felt he just needed a little tweaking.  Then, came House and Hue Jackson.  Some on here like to sell him short for his record with an organization with 5 playoff wins TOTAL in the entirety of its lifespan, but the guy knows how to exploit matchups, and always has.  Coaching IU against Big 10 heavyweights in the 1980s?  No problem, just condition the hell out of your squad and run the no huddle as base offense to narrow the talent gap.  Came up with the outlawed "sugar huddle" to go along with running the no huddle, and the complex language to run no huddle offense as a base.  He also almost won a Super Bowl against a legendary dynasty with a QB who had a bum shoulder entering the playoffs, against the QB he tutored as a rookie in Joe Montana.  Went on to draft the cornerstones of the Super Bowl Champion Buccaneers in Warren Sapp, John Lynch, and Derrick Brooks.  The guy is no slouch, even in his 70s.  Plenty of articles out there about it.

Dead on.  Some will think this is cutting the legs out of Zampese, and that isn't how I view it at all.  Sam wouldn't be redesigning the offense from square one, he could simply look at it run and provide a few ideas that might help it excel.  Top tier businesses do it all the time.  I am always willing to learn from someone that can help me in my job, and I have a pretty strong resume of success.  If you think you can't learn from anyone, you are being naive and arrogant at the same time.

Not saying Zampese has stated any such thing, but I would love to see Sam look at things with him during camp and just come up with 3-5 suggestions after watching that could help the overall schematic or just a couple plays.  

You hear all the time how it is a game of inches.  I would relish the idea of Sam providing some input to try and squeeze out a bit more production of this offense.

[fredtoast]

There are c31 other NFL teams and every one of them is desperate for any edge they can find. yet wyche has not had a job in the NFL in over a decade.

Either Sam is not interested or no team in the NFL thinks he is qualified.

Not saying Sam was not a visonary in his time, but so was the guy who brought the "Wildcat Formation" to the NFL a few years ago. It was an interesting little fad, but you rarely see it anymore. And I can't even name the guy who did it because he has done nothing since.

Sam has a great legacy with the Bengals. Lets leave it that way.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-09-2017, 08:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: There are c31 other NFL teams and every one of them is desperate for any edge they can find.  yet wyche has not had a job in the NFL in over a decade.

Either Sam is not interested or no team in the NFL thinks he is qualified.

Not saying Sam was not a visonary in his time, but so was the guy who brought the "Wildcat Formation" to the NFL a few years ago.  It was an interesting little fad, but you rarely see it anymore.  And I can't even name the guy who did it because he has done nothing since.

Sam has a great legacy with the Bengals.  Lets leave it that way.

I'm sorry, but comparing the Wildcat to the No Huddle  and the West Coast Offense (Ohio River Offense?) is a bit like comparing a walkman to an iphone.  One had a brief stand of popularity and technology eventually rendered it useless, the other is a mainstay in our daily lives.

Again, not saying he takes over and Zampese does what he says, but just a consultant....an observer...that can help the team self-scout.  

If nothing else, help this team learn how to run a *$(&#@& 2 minute drill!!!  How long have we gone without one that looks anything other than a complete disaster?

[Au165]

(05-09-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm sorry, but comparing the Wildcat to the No Huddle  and the West Coast Offense (Ohio River Offense?) is a bit like comparing a walkman to an iphone.  One had a brief stand of popularity and technology eventually rendered it useless, the other is a mainstay in our daily lives.

Again, not saying he takes over and Zampese does what he says, but just a consultant....an observer...that can help the team self-scout.  

If nothing else, help this team learn how to run a *$(&#@& 2 minute drill!!!  How long have we gone without one that looks anything other than a complete disaster?

As Fred pointed out his last NFL job was over a decade ago as a QB coach on a shit team with QB's that never got any better. Before that is was another decade before the guy had an NFL job, I'm sorry if he had anything to offer he'd be offering it and someone would be taking him up on it. If he had no tie here no one would even bring him up, once again people are reaching for anything here. There are other 70+ year old consultants and coaches in the NFL but Sam isn't one. Maybe he doesn't want to do it, maybe he can't, either way it seems moot to even talk about.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm sorry, but comparing the Wildcat to the No Huddle  and the West Coast Offense (Ohio River Offense?) is a bit like comparing a walkman to an iphone. 

Sam Wyche did not develope the West Coast Offense.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm sorry, but comparing the Wildcat to the No Huddle  and the West Coast Offense (Ohio River Offense?) is a bit like comparing a walkman to an iphone.  One had a brief stand of popularity and technology eventually rendered it useless, the other is a mainstay in our daily lives.

Again, not saying he takes over and Zampese does what he says, but just a consultant....an observer...that can help the team self-scout.  

If nothing else, help this team learn how to run a *$(&#@& 2 minute drill!!!  How long have we gone without one that looks anything other than a complete disaster?

Not only that, but 31 other teams have passed on giving Piano Man an offer or a promotion in 25 years......I guess we have been provided the logic as to why.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm sorry, but comparing the Wildcat to the No Huddle  and the West Coast Offense (Ohio River Offense?) is a bit like comparing a walkman to an iphone.  One had a brief stand of popularity and technology eventually rendered it useless, the other is a mainstay in our daily lives.

Again, not saying he takes over and Zampese does what he says, but just a consultant....an observer...that can help the team self-scout.  

If nothing else, help this team learn how to run a *$(&#@& 2 minute drill!!!  How long have we gone without one that looks anything other than a complete disaster?

Right......and the Wildcat was a fad....they're STILL using things Sam brought to the game to this day.  I can't believe our own fans have not read the articles on him....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 09:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: As Fred pointed out his last NFL job was over a decade ago as a QB coach on a shit team with QB's that never got any better. Before that is was another decade before the guy had an NFL job, I'm sorry if he had anything to offer he'd be offering it and someone would be taking him up on it. If he had no tie here no one would even bring him up, once again people are reaching for anything here. There are other 70+ year old consultants and coaches in the NFL but Sam isn't one. Maybe he doesn't want to do it, maybe he can't, either way it seems moot to even talk about.

He took a gig as an analyst and announcer from 96 (after his last year in Tampa) to 2000, when his voice gave out midway through the game in week 2.  He took some time off after having a biopsy on his lymph nodes in his chest result in a severed vocal chord.  After a couple years off, he returned to the booth as analyst for Westwood One's Thursday Night Football coverage, and for Fox Sports South covering the SEC, all the while volunteering as Offensive Coordinator at Greenville-Pickens High.....the Bills contacted him.  Let's just say he's been active in football pretty much up until his heart transplant.  It seems you're reaching for anything to try and discredit the guy without laying out all of the variables to the situation. No one was coaching up Rob Johnson.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-08-2017, 03:18 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Dick LeBeau has stayed in the game, Sam has been gone from it for how long now? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Sam Wyche fan, but there is not a clearer way to state to your team that you don't trust your OC than to start bringing in consultants to "help" his offense..... I thought Zampese did ok last year with what he had to work with. This year he will have more and I expect more.

I remember when we heard Hue say that he planned to continue Gruden's scheme his first year here, and then we heard the same from Zampese about Hue's scheme right after Hue left.
Both Gruden and Hue had much more success in their second season as OC compared to their first because they were trying not to change too much from the previous scheme.
It takes time to adjust a scheme to the new coordinator, and therefore I too think Zampese will have more success this year compared to last.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 11:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I remember when we heard Hue say that he planned to continue Gruden's scheme his first year here, and then we heard the same from Zampese about Hue's scheme right after Hue left.
Both Gruden and Hue had much more success in their second season as OC compared to their first because they were trying not to change too much from the previous scheme.
It takes time to adjust a scheme to the new coordinator, and therefore I too think Zampese will have more success this year compared to last.

Good point. :andy:

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2017, 11:01 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not only that, but 31 other teams have passed on giving Piano Man an offer or a promotion in 25 years......I guess we have been provided the logic as to why.

Your attempt to make everything about Paul Alexander is getting a little creepy.  You can't compare not getting a promotion to not getting a job.

But weren't you the guy who in this very thread claimed Monte Kiffen was a good DC?  

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2017, 11:12 AM)Wyche Wrote:  No one was coaching up Rob Johnson.

Listen I understand that you are WYCHE'S warrior and may be a little hyper-sensitive about this subject.  But I don't think there is anyone here who does not love Sam Wyche for taking us to the Super Bowl.  We just don't think he is the right fit today.










BTW Someone was using the #6 pick of the draft on Trent Dilfer.

(05-09-2017, 11:12 AM)Wyche Wrote:

[Au165]

(05-09-2017, 11:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: He took a gig as an analyst and announcer from 96 (after his last year in Tampa) to 2000, when his voice gave out midway through the game in week 2.  He took some time off after having a biopsy on his lymph nodes in his chest result in a severed vocal chord.  After a couple years off, he returned to the booth as analyst for Westwood One's Thursday Night Football coverage, and for Fox Sports South covering the SEC, all the while volunteering as Offensive Coordinator at Greenville-Pickens High.....the Bills contacted him.  Let's just say he's been active in football pretty much up until his heart transplant.  It seems you're reaching for anything to try and discredit the guy without laying out all of the variables to the situation.  No one was coaching up Rob Johnson.

He was an analyst (Jay Cutler is too), but still not a coach for those years, so as I said he was basically out of the game for 20 years. He was offered a QB coach job on a shit team. Really? That was the one offer he was waiting for to leave the booth to come back to the game for, or that was the only offer he got? Your love for the guy is noted, but seriously come on. Maybe it had nothing to do with his ability, but rather his personality? Either way doesn't make sense to bring him here. With all that said the guy is not in a physical condition to be here so it is not even worth the discussion.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 11:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Listen I understand that you are WYCHE'S warrior and may be a little hyper-sensitive about this subject.  But I don't think there is anyone here who does not love Sam Wyche for taking us to the Super Bowl.  We just don't think he is the right fit today.










BTW Someone was using the #6 pick of the draft on Trent Dilfer.

.....and I think he has something to offer.




You mean SB Champ Trent Dilfer ?

As for your boy Paulie....that had more to do with flipping your logic.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 11:59 AM)Au165 Wrote: He was an analyst (Jay Cutler is too), but still not a coach for those years, so as I said he was basically out of the game for 20 years. He was offered a QB coach job on a shit team. Really? That was the one offer he was waiting for to leave the booth to come back to the game for, or that was the only offer he got? Your love for the guy is noted, but seriously come on. Maybe it had nothing to do with his ability, but rather his personality? Either way doesn't make sense to bring him here. With all that said the guy is not in a physical condition to be here so it is not even worth the discussion.

Oh.....he's a bit abrasive....no doubt....which is probably why I like him so much.  That....and the mad scientist approach.  He wasn't actively seeking a coaching position when Buffalo contacted him....if memory serves.


Cutler just played last year

[firstand10]

I agree Sam has forgotten more football than chimpanzee! I also remember Sam starting the no-huddle offense. The Buffalo Bills coach didn't like it and threatened to file a formal protest with the league! Then after Sam left they were one of the first to start using it!