Does the Slot Give Dennard a Realistic Chance of Succeeding?

[3wt]

Per Hobson in his early preview of the Defense:

"Can Dennard, in his fourth season after they took him with the 24th pick in the draft, anchor himself in the slot after a career of fits and starts?"

This seems to indicate that the Bengals are going to insist that if Dennard make the team he does it as a slot CB - a place he has failed miserably since he started his injury plagued career with the Bengals.

He made a name for himself at Michigan State as a press corner - to the extent that he was widely considered a first round pick.  When he has played outside for the Bengals he has appeared to play pretty well, certainly better than the slot where he has been routinely toasted.

There are a lot of writers on these boards who know a lot more about how Dennard has played, snap for snap - and who know more about football than I do.   Am I crazy, or are the Bengals going to drive this guy out of football by insisting on playing him at the wrong position?



http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/What-to-watch-on-defense/d57cface-8e9c-48d7-86b7-240f0a3274a7 

[Au165]

The issue is while waiting for Dennard to "blossum" we had to draft/sign around him. WJ3 and Kirkpatrick have long term deals and will anchor the outsides going forward. This leaves Dennard's only real future as a slot guy, but in today's NFL that is a starting position and a very important one at that. The other thing is we have Russell and Shaw who can play all over as well so I think we are set going forward at CB it is just a matter of who and what position.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Dude lost his spot on the depth chart to Shaw, who seemingly outplayed him in every way.

Bust. Lets just hope Will Jack, Russell, or Bene step up behind Kirkpatrick and Shaw while Jones is suspended, and Kirkpatrick takes another step forward despite getting paid after his contract year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-23-2017, 02:28 PM)3wt Wrote: Per Hobson in his early preview of the Defense:

"Can Dennard, in his fourth season after they took him with the 24th pick in the draft, anchor himself in the slot after a career of fits and starts?"

This seems to indicate that the Bengals are going to insist that if Dennard make the team he does it as a slot CB - a place he has failed miserably since he started his injury plagued career with the Bengals.

He made a name for himself at Michigan State as a press corner - to the extent that he was widely considered a first round pick.  When he has played outside for the Bengals he has appeared to play pretty well, certainly better than the slot where he has been routinely toasted.

There are a lot of writers on these boards who know a lot more about how Dennard has played, snap for snap - and who know more about football than I do.   Am I crazy, or are the Bengals going to drive this guy out of football by insisting on playing him at the wrong position?



http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/What-to-watch-on-defense/d57cface-8e9c-48d7-86b7-240f0a3274a7 

You aren't crazy, it is spot on, plus Shaw was one of the best Slot corners in the league last year. You don't just replace
him cause the other guy is a 1st rounder. Dennard is much better on the outside, let him compete there with WJ3 and let
the better Corner win out that spot.

Just my thoughts.

[Quantum Bengal]

I think Shaw is a very good and versatile player. As long as we aren't replacing Shaw with Dennard, I like Dennard in the slot.

[*ochocincos*]

What I would do (playing to everyone's strengths in theory):
Outside CBs = WJ3 and Dennard
inside CB = DK
FS = Shaw
SS = Iloka
nickel LB = Williams

While DK has been solid on the outside, I think he could be a better CB covering inside routes than Dennard because of his height and length.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-23-2017, 03:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What I would do (playing to everyone's strengths in theory):
Outside CBs = WJ3 and Dennard
inside CB = DK
FS = Shaw
SS = Iloka
nickel LB = Williams

While DK has been solid on the outside, I think he could be a better CB covering inside routes than Dennard because of his height and length.

Love it.

[3wt]

(05-23-2017, 03:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What I would do (playing to everyone's strengths in theory):
Outside CBs = WJ3 and Dennard
inside CB = DK
FS = Shaw
SS = Iloka
nickel LB = Williams

While DK has been solid on the outside, I think he could be a better CB covering inside routes than Dennard because of his height and length.

To me Dre is an outside guy.  He's really a good press corner.  He seems to struggle with the small quick receivers - kind of like Sherman does.

The key to a good defensive backfield is A) putting players at the point of their strength and B) Depth

Depending on whether (or how long) Adam Jones is suspended our starters on the outside are going to be:

Dre and Jones - with WJIII likely replacing Jones if/ when he is suspended.

Dennard should be backing up the other outside

Shaw should be starting in the slot.  He has played well there and is a physical corner - plus he's backup at the safety spot

Russell can back up all over the field - but should be the primary backup for the slot.   If Dennard fails then he would backup for Dre as well.

I think we go into the season with the same four safeties (Iloka, Williams, Fedge and Smith) with Wilson in contention for Smith's spot - especially with his ST abilities.  It will be interesting to see how he plays, but he has the speed to cover over the top.  Fedge and Williams both have the ability to play nickel backer.   Fedge was great in the box last year and great on special teams.

So from my perspective, if Dennard is going to play we should not be trying to find a starting gig for the first round pick.  We should be playing him at a position of strength and seeing (over time) if he can beat one of the starters out.  If not the hope is that he would be an outstanding backup on the outside where you really cannot have enough depth.

[wolfkaosaun]

I never liked them playing Dennard in the nickel and think it's still a terrible idea. They aren't playing to his strengths. Plus, Dennard NEVER played slot CB in college. He was always outside.

Cornerback is the hardest transition to make in the NFL from college. Shaw did extremely well and while I'd like to see him at safety, he's great for us in the nickel position.

They already picked up Dennard's 5th year, see what he can do on the outside. Cornerbacks only get better with more experience. Something that Dennard doesn't have. We had the same issue with Kirkpatrick. He saw little to no reps and also struggled with the nickel position. Because he's better suited outside.

Dennard's realistic chance will be when Adam Jones is suspended and they actually put him on the outside. That's when we can actually see his strengths.

[jj22]

Dennard plays the run and tackles well from the slot, but I agree with everyone who said he's an outside guy. I like his physicality, aggression, and still have hope he'll show why he was a steal when drafted.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-23-2017, 08:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dennard plays the run and tackles well from the slot, but I agree with everyone who said he's an outside guy. I like his physicality, aggression, and still have hope he'll show why he was a steal when drafted.

But has displayed 0 ball skills.

I think his future in the NFL (if he has one) is putting on 7-12 pounds of muscle and playing safety.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-23-2017, 08:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: But has displayed 0 ball skills.

I think his future in the NFL (if he has one) is putting on 7-12 pounds of muscle and playing safety.

Had a beautiful pick, so he has displayed atleast 1 ball skill.

[Shake n Blake]

Man was I ever wrong on Dennard. He looked like a can't miss guy. I said he looked like Leon before we even drafted him. Shaw balances it out though. He was a really nice surprise from day 1. Russell was a nice pickup as well.

I'd consider trading Dennard for a disappointing lineman. Sometimes a change of scenery can help a player. So I like those types of trades.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-23-2017, 02:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You aren't crazy, it is spot on, plus Shaw was one of the best Slot corners in the league last year. You don't just replace
him cause the other guy is a 1st rounder. Dennard is much better on the outside, let him compete there with WJ3 and let
the better Corner win out that spot.

Just my thoughts.

It is a tough debate.  I agree with everything Nate is saying here, but then I think is it messing with Dennard to not keep working him in the slot?  

Right now, he is the backup slot and backup outside.  The depth is such that he is only an injury away from being a starter at either spot.  I almost think he is better off being trained to be the backup on the outside to see if he can reach the potential he showed in college.  

I'm sure we will see a lot of him in the preseason on the outside.  Hopefully, he shows he can do it and can be signed for a reasonable amount moving forward.  If not, he becomes another compensatory pick, albeit not a very high one.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-23-2017, 03:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What I would do (playing to everyone's strengths in theory):
Outside CBs = WJ3 and Dennard
inside CB = DK
FS = Shaw
SS = Iloka
nickel LB = Williams

While DK has been solid on the outside, I think he could be a better CB covering inside routes than Dennard because of his height and length.

I get this, but Williams finally started to show some ability starting at safety as the year wore on.  I think the Viking (Fej) could be a better nickel LB than Williams anyway and you don't have to pull Williams from his normal starting role.  

I am surprised you would want Dre to play the inside CB position when he has played his entire career outside.  I think Dennard is the first CB off the bench for either the slot or the outside until he takes someone's job either by injury or superior ability.  

[*ochocincos*]

(05-24-2017, 08:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get this, but Williams finally started to show some ability starting at safety as the year wore on.  I think the Viking (Fej) could be a better nickel LB than Williams anyway and you don't have to pull Williams from his normal starting role.  

I am surprised you would want Dre to play the inside CB position when he has played his entire career outside.  I think Dennard is the first CB off the bench for either the slot or the outside until he takes someone's job either by injury or superior ability.  

The purpose of my proposal was to find a way for all of Williams, Iloka, Shaw, DK, Dennard, and WJ3 a chance to have a key role rather than just riding the bench as a pure backup.
I'll clarify too that DK would be outside CB in non-nickel situations, Williams would be SS. So essentially Shaw and Dennard only play in nickel, but other players actually shift their positions rather than Shaw and Dennard playing inside CB and nickel LB.

[jj22]

Sounds like Dennard is the new Dre. Dre had us all backtracking our criticism and desperate to keep him. Hopefully it works out the same for Dennard. It's not like he had the starting job open for him and just didn't take it. Injuries aside, there was never a spot ready for him. Now's his chance.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-24-2017, 08:33 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is a tough debate.  I agree with everything Nate is saying here, but then I think is it messing with Dennard to not keep working him in the slot?  

Right now, he is the backup slot and backup outside.  The depth is such that he is only an injury away from being a starter at either spot.  I almost think he is better off being trained to be the backup on the outside to see if he can reach the potential he showed in college.  

I'm sure we will see a lot of him in the preseason on the outside.  Hopefully, he shows he can do it and can be signed for a reasonable amount moving forward.  If not, he becomes another compensatory pick, albeit not a very high one.  

It is tough, but it is a great thing to have this much competition in a passing league at the CB position.

I would just prefer the guy compete at where he plays best, the quick Slot receivers give Dennard more problems than the
big outside receivers from what i see. Dennard is a physical, bump and run corner that has fluid hips and good ball skills.

Would like for us to re-sign him if he plays well, always liked the guy in college. I am with Shake on this one, so far i have
been dead wrong about the guy but injuries are the reason more than anything and playing behind 1st rounders.

(05-24-2017, 08:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get this, but Williams finally started to show some ability starting at safety as the year wore on.  I think the Viking (Fej) could be a better nickel LB than Williams anyway and you don't have to pull Williams from his normal starting role.  

I am surprised you would want Dre to play the inside CB position when he has played his entire career outside.  I think Dennard is the first CB off the bench for either the slot or the outside until he takes someone's job either by injury or superior ability.  

The coaches have been talking about Fej as a nickel backer actually.

(05-24-2017, 09:17 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The purpose of my proposal was to find a way for all of Williams, Iloka, Shaw, DK, Dennard, and WJ3 a chance to have a key role rather than just riding the bench as a pure backup.
I'll clarify too that DK would be outside CB in non-nickel situations, Williams would be SS. So essentially Shaw and Dennard only play in nickel, but other players actually shift their positions rather than Shaw and Dennard playing inside CB and nickel LB.

It is a great proposal IMHO. I have thought of that exact same proposal in my mind.

Great way to get all the talent on the field at the same time that can all cover.

[eoxyod]

Dennard is probably best on the outside, but there are 3 players on the outside who are probably better. I wouldn't be mad to see Pac go into the slot in the nickel actually, as I think his short area quickness and aggressiveness work there. But just from what we've seen Shaw does a fine job in the slot. Pac is declining and probably shouldn't be on the team but that's not really relevant now beccause as of now he is better, Dre definitely is going to stay as the LCB, and WJ3 is probably going to be better as well.

Also to whoever said it - Dre in the slot would be the literal opposite of a good idea and utilizing his strengths

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-23-2017, 02:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You aren't crazy, it is spot on, plus Shaw was one of the best Slot corners in the league last year. You don't just replace
him cause the other guy is a 1st rounder. Dennard is much better on the outside, let him compete there with WJ3 and let
the better Corner win out that spot.

Just my thoughts.

Yup. Let him compete with Dre too.....if he beats one of them out, so be it.  I can't, for the life of me, see why they insisted on him playing slot when he was clearly better at MSU using the boundary as a defender.