Core looking great!

[sandwedge]

(05-30-2017, 04:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand that. But what I'm saying is we've heard the same thing before about improvements from players like Armon Binns and James Wright and they ended up still being unproductive. So until I see video proof or in-game performance, I still won't believe it.

What else is Hobs going to write about in the offseason? The sad fact it is the underwear season.

[lostpoet2]

(05-29-2017, 07:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Physicality is what Core offers that none of our other WR's offer Wolf...

He is the most physical blocker we have right now...

LaFell is quite physical.  Watch take out Calvin Pryor at 0:05 at the bottom of the screen and the reply at about 0:32

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Andy-Dalton-finds-CJ-Uzomah-for-54-yards/08ac65e2-858e-4d8a-a592-68e3fa4d03ec

[Luvnit2]

(05-30-2017, 03:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think it's more people want to see it for themselves before believing it. Those people doubting point to the hype articles Hobson posted years back on James Wright, Armon Binns, etc.
Also, the comments from Dalton like, "He's fast" are vague. He was "fast" coming out of college. That's supported by his 4.42 40 time and his college tape catching deep balls. His question was his explosion off the line and stiffness in routes, so saying "He's fast" doesn't guarantee he's gained that off-the-line explosion and agility.

Me personally, I hope he's improved and believe he has to at least some extent, but until I have visual proof, I don't consider everything from bengals.com to be pure fact just yet.

Remember Binns hype, but never recall any James Wright other than his ST play. As a receiver, he was never hyped that I remember.

[Luvnit2]

(05-30-2017, 04:20 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Yep. Armon Binns is the best comparison to this. It's crazy how much people put into OTAs.

I WANT him to be productive. I'm not putting all of my hopes and dreams into a 6th round pick, and then when he doesn't succeed, I'm not going to be one of those fans that for some reason calls him a bust or disappointment.

LOL

Sounds to me as you already wrote off our 2nd year 6th round pick. That is fine, but at least admit it.

[Whatever]

(05-30-2017, 01:31 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Well I disagree, in life if you can't take weaknesses and improve them through hard work and in this case technique you will always fail. There would be no need to rate performance in the workplace because if your scenario is used, it would be a waste of time

Before you say, an NFL athlete is not like a common worker, I will show you a short list of guys who improved  year after year early in the careers.
1. Atkins
2. Tom Brady
3. A. Brown went from no TD AB to a threat scoring.

I could go on, but my point is using a draft position and pre-draft critiques to come up with the final outcome is short sided and frankly just wrong.

Lots of NFL players improve early in their careers.  Some plateau.  Some backslide.

His draft status is not the end all, be all of what kind of player he will turn out to be.  However, the success rate on 6th and 7th round picks is a lot worse than it is for 1st and 2nd rounders.  He would not have been drafted so late unless he had significant physical limitations and/or needed a lot of work on his technique.  His scouting reports help us determine his weak points, and whether they are things that he can reasonably be expected to improve through hard work and experience or if they are issues that he will always have and has to work around..

[Whatever]

(05-30-2017, 03:48 PM)sandwedge Wrote: That's just it though, the article from Hobs is just saying you can tell the guy is/has been working his tail off to improve this offseason. Not saying he is the second coming of AJ or anything like that. Time will only tell, when they put the pads on, if his offseason was good enough to make the squad. 
 If last year was any kind of indication, 7 receivers are needed, especially needing some speed at the lower end of your line-up.

It's great that he's working to improve, but every player in the league is working to improve.  If they aren't, they don't belong in the league.

Lots of things can happen.  However, there is not a lot of reason to logically expect Core to contribute much if he even makes the roster at all.  Green is an elite WR in anyone's book.  Core isn't going to take snaps away from him.  Ross is another Top 10 pick, and they'll be trying to design plays to get the ball into his hands.  Boyd was a 2nd round pick, so he's safe.  LaFell is a great locker room presence, has deep playoff experience, and was productive last year.  He's safe.  Malone is pretty much assured a spot, as they never cut 4th rounders in their rookie year.  Erickson led the conference in kick return yards last year, and any realistic non-injury related hope of Core making the 53 if they keep your standard 6 WR's relies on somebody beating him out for the primary returner job.  They could keep 7, but that's less appealing when you have 2 RB's(Gio, Mixon) and a TE(Eifert) that can split out wide.  On top of that, Core has PS eligibility.  If he does make the main roster, he in all likelihood won't move past AJ, Ross, LaFell, or Boyd on the depth chart.  He won't be the return man, either, so that pretty much indicates that he will be inactive on game day.

They have speed at the bottom of the lineup.  Malone ran 4.4 at the combine and Erickson ran 4.44 at his Pro Day.

[eoxyod]

(05-30-2017, 06:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: LOL

Sounds to me as you already wrote off our 2nd year 6th round pick. That is fine, but at least admit it.

You caught me. I want him to be bad so I am right

[Luvnit2]

(05-30-2017, 06:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: Lots of NFL players improve early in their careers.  Some plateau.  Some backslide.

His draft status is not the end all, be all of what kind of player he will turn out to be.  However, the success rate on 6th and 7th round picks is a lot worse than it is for 1st and 2nd rounders.  He would not have been drafted so late unless he had significant physical limitations and/or needed a lot of work on his technique.  His scouting reports help us determine his weak points, and whether they are things that he can reasonably be expected to improve through hard work and experience or if they are issues that he will always have and has to work around..

I agree with everything you said. But, there are way too many cases of late round picks or players undrafted that not only progressed, they became stars.

I never eve started this thread to say Core was going be a star WR, but he has an opportunity if he works at his craft harder than those early round picks work. He may have a hug chip on his shoulder and like the James Harrison's of the NFL do indeed get better with age.

My point though I get the lower expectations, but I don't get writing him off after 1 rookie year as some are doing already.

[Luvnit2]

(05-30-2017, 07:19 PM)eoxyod Wrote: You caught me. I want him to be bad so I am right

Not what I said, I said you wrote him off and IMHO, you did and now you want to dodge the question.

[eoxyod]

(05-30-2017, 07:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Not what I said, I said you wrote him off and IMHO, you did and now you want to dodge the question.

I haven't written him off. He has a lot to develop though. Can he? Of course he can develop. Can he do it on a team with 4 good WRs, another 4th round draft pick, and a special teamer ahead of him? It's not as likely. Fans over-estimate the talent their team has often, and I'm not going to put too much into someone only to then call him a disappointment when he doesn't live up to my bloated expectations that I gave him for no reason.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-30-2017, 07:50 PM)eoxyod Wrote: I haven't written him off. He has a lot to develop though. Can he? Of course he can develop. Can he do it on a team with 4 good WRs, another 4th round draft pick, and a special teamer ahead of him? It's not as likely. Fans over-estimate the talent their team has often, and I'm not going to put too much into someone only to then call him a disappointment when he doesn't live up to my bloated expectations that I gave him for no reason.

I am a strong proponent of Cody Core, was one of the few that were happy when the Bengals selected him.  Living in SEC TV country, I saw him in action in college, saw him demonstrate what he could do when Treadwell went down.  With that said, you make a very good point about people shouldn't build players up, only to set themselves up for a letdown when said player doesn't reach unattainable expectations.

Sure, I'm happy to learn that Core is taking his job seriously, putting in that extra work in the offseason.  I hope that he can demonstrate an improvement from that work, and secure a spot on the final 53.  If he happens to be the 5th or 6th option on the depth chart, wonderful, as the team appears to be well stocked in the WR dept.

[lostpoet2]

(05-30-2017, 06:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: LOL

Sounds to me as you already wrote off our 2nd year 6th round pick. That is fine, but at least admit it.

I admit that I've written off Core, but hopefully he proves me wrong.

I think the fact that the team wants to keep 7 receivers indicates that they think Core and Erickson are both worth a continued investment, and that Core specifically has a chance at filling a James Wright/Brandon LaFell/Marvin Jones hybrid role (ST dude/physical/and tertiary deep threat) down the road.

[McC]

(05-30-2017, 07:50 PM)eoxyod Wrote: I haven't written him off. He has a lot to develop though. Can he? Of course he can develop. Can he do it on a team with 4 good WRs, another 4th round draft pick, and a special teamer ahead of him? It's not as likely. Fans over-estimate the talent their team has often, and I'm not going to put too much into someone only to then call him a disappointment when he doesn't live up to my bloated expectations that I gave him for no reason.

Who are these Fans?  Who is over hyping him?  Name one.

[McC]

The only people I see predicting anything are the ones predicting him to fail.

[McC]

Using the logic I've seen in this thread, that if the team thought anything of him, they wouldn't have drafted a virtual clone in the 4th round this year, that means that using a first rounder on a receiver means the team thinks nothing of the second rounder from last year.

[*Synric*]

(05-30-2017, 06:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Remember Binns hype, but never recall any James Wright other than his ST play. As a receiver, he was never hyped that I remember.

I remember Brandon Tate hype as a receiver a couple different seasons at this time of year.

[Whatever]

(05-30-2017, 10:27 PM)McC Wrote: Who are these Fans?  Who is over hyping him?  Name one.

(05-30-2017, 10:28 PM)McC Wrote: The only people I see predicting anything are the ones predicting him to fail.

(05-30-2017, 10:31 PM)McC Wrote: Using the logic I've seen in this thread, that if the team thought anything of him, they wouldn't have drafted a virtual clone in the 4th round this year, that means that using a first rounder on a receiver means the team thinks nothing of the second rounder from last year.

Look in the Draft forum and you'll see numerous posters who didn't think we needed to draft a WR because we had Core.  That's right, we didn't need a WR because we've got a guy who averaged 25 yards a game and hasn't scored an NFL TD, yet.  That's overrated, imo.

Malone isn't a clone of Core.  If he was, he wouldn't have been drafted in the 4th.  He has better hands, better deep speed, and is much better after the catch, while Core is stronger and more physical.  Everyone knows the Bengals were targeting a deep threat in the 1st last year, and took Boyd in the 2nd because they desperately needed a #3 WR.  No, if they were that sold on Boyd and especially Core, they wouldn't have taken Ross and Malone in their first 5 picks.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-26-2017, 05:37 AM)ben_lewtas9 Wrote: New here, but I thought i'd chime in.

Classic bengals move would be to cut a guy like Erickson. I have nightmares of Belichick picking up Erickson and turning him into Edelman 2.0....

Core has solid upside, but I agree, we're playing underwear football at the moment so it's hard to know for sure.

You mean like they are going to do with Burkhead?

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-26-2017, 02:32 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I'm thinking to myself if it's between keeping Core and Erickson (if they only want to go with 6), they might (IMO should) keep Erickson because of his dependable production as a returner, and relegate Core to the PS.  I'm still not sold that Core would be plucked off the PS if they put him there, but other teams sure have some tape on him from the last game of last year.  I'm hoping that maybe Wilson can become a great return man (with Mixon thrown in to ease the burden), so that Erickson can get traded (if Core actually shows that he's worth keeping).  Either way, I'm leaning towards Core being the 7th man right now, but hope he proves me wrong big time!  Even though I'm not sold on Core yet, I do think given one more year of development, he could become a solid 3rd receiver next year.  No matter what, it's going to be a bummer if we have to lose one of the receivers to another team (unless a trade upgrades a weaker spot on the team).  In case of injuries, I'm happy about the receiver depth on the team.  

I don't understand how Malone would be ranked ahead of Core and Erickson when he has had zero NFL production thus far, and is also extremely raw.

Draft position was based on potential, but Core showed excellent coachability.  They raved about how quickly he picked up the nuances of NFL route running.  Erickson had an outstanding rookie season after a slow start and is also a capable backup slot WR.  

Malone has done nothing thus far.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-29-2017, 06:27 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Sure on Fisher, but don't confuse having a couple good catches as anything too great in pads for Core. We have had tons of receivers here do things like that, and they didn't do anything with the team. I'm not trying to actively count him out, but there's still only so much room and as excited I am, the entire receiving corp isn't about to be the best in the league (Being hyperbolic but you know). I do hope he continues to have this translate though, and if it makes you feel better I had a dream he was doing super well against the Ravens

Core had four catches for 82 yards against the Ravens in his second start in the NFL.  The Ravens were 7th in total defense and 9th against the pass.  I was at that game, and they were afraid of him getting over the top of them.  (sidenote:  this is why I am so excited about the Ross pick....)  The 31 yard reception he made showed his physical nature as well.  

I realize that one game does not make an NFL career, but he didn't have AJ or EIfert drawing coverage away from him in that game.  I think Core could become a real key piece of this offense in 2017.