Footballoutsiders on Bengals pass rush

[Dr. Bombay]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/defense-and-pass-pressure-2016

First of all they point out that even though sacks are big, pressuring a QB without getting a sack is also very important to a defense. QBs under pressure average 2 yards less per attempt, had their completion percentage drop by almost 25 points, and see their TD to INT ration cut in half.

The Bengals were able to generate "pressure plays" on 30.8% of opponents pass plays. That ranked 6th in the league, but was not that far behind the #1 Bronco's 32.2%. The Colts were last in the league with only 19.0%.

Next the looked at the teams' defensive efficiency (DVOA) "with pressure" compared to "without pressure". The bigger the difference the more a teams pass defense depends on the pass rush. The bengals ranked 18th in DVOA difference which means they are pretty much average.

Finally they ranked each teams "Pressure percentage" based on the number of rushers. They broke it down into 3 catagories "Three or fewer", "four", and "five or more". The Bengals were the second best team in the league in getting pressure with 3 or fewer, seventh when rushing 4, and fourth when rushing 5 or more. The Panthers and eagles were the only other teams to rank in the top 10 in all three catagories. But these numbers might be a little misleading. For example the Eagles were #1 in pressure percentage while rushing 3 or fewer with an incredible 77.8%, but they only rushed 3 or fewer a total of nine plays all year. So take these numbers with a grain of salt.

[HarleyDog]

Very interesting. Marv has always been stronger in defensive knowledge and sure he is knee deep in the defense. He sucks at offense and until he has an OC that is able to run with it and teach Marv at the same time, we are always going to be stronger on D and pretty ok on O.

[Luvnit2]

(06-23-2017, 07:07 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/defense-and-pass-pressure-2016

First of all they point out that even though sacks are big, pressuring a QB without getting a sack is also very important to a defense.  QBs under pressure average 2 yards less per attempt, had their completion percentage drop by almost 25 points, and see their TD to INT ration cut in half.

The Bengals were able to generate "pressure plays" on 30.8% of opponents pass plays.  That ranked 6th in the league, but was not that far behind the #1 Bronco's 32.2%.  The Colts were last in the league with only 19.0%.

Next the looked at the teams' defensive efficiency (DVOA) "with pressure" compared to "without pressure".  The bigger the difference the more a teams pass defense depends on the pass rush.  The bengals ranked 18th in DVOA difference which means they are pretty much average.

Finally they ranked each teams "Pressure percentage" based on the number of rushers.  They broke it down into 3 catagories "Three or fewer", "four", and "five or more".  The Bengals were the second best team in the league in getting pressure with 3 or fewer, seventh when rushing 4, and fourth when rushing 5 or more.  The Panthers and eagles were the only other teams to rank in the top 10 in all three catagories.  But these numbers might be a little misleading.  For example the Eagles were #1 in pressure percentage while rushing 3 or fewer with an incredible 77.8%, but they only rushed 3 or fewer a total of nine plays all year.  So take these numbers with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the facts and info

I can see our defense being top 5 in 2017 with Billings healthy, Minter and the added DE's Lawson and Willis. I am hoping our pass rush becomes scary and we get back to a great 8 man DL rotation we had in the past

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-23-2017, 07:15 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very interesting. Marv has always been stronger in defensive knowledge and sure he is knee deep in the defense. He sucks at offense and until he has an OC that is able to run with it and teach Marv at the same time, we are always going to be stronger on D and pretty ok on O.

What's really interesting is that the Bengals pretty much sucked for 5 years on D under Marvin until Zimmer came in. I'm 100% convinced Paul G is a Zimmer product rather than a Lewis product.

[HarleyDog]

(06-23-2017, 09:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What's really interesting is that the Bengals pretty much sucked for 5 years on D under Marvin until Zimmer came in. I'm 100% convinced Paul G is a Zimmer product rather than a Lewis product.

Hope you are right or I will punch you in the face. Lol, jk.

[Dr. Bombay]

Start a thread about us having a good pass rush last year and within three posts no one is saying anything about our pass rush and instead are just making this another "Marvin sucks" thread.

Interesting group of posters around here.

[BenZoo2]

(06-23-2017, 11:50 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Start a thread about us having a good pass rush last year and within three posts no one is saying anything about our pass rush and instead are just making this another "Marvin sucks" thread.

Interesting group of posters around here.

We were. You don't like it, leave


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[Bilbo Saggins]

This is really interesting, because my eyeballs told me that for the past couple of seasons the only guys doing really well on the D-line were Atkins and Dunlap.  Maybe we were spoiled by MJ's breakout year and expect pure gas across the board?

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-24-2017, 04:05 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: This is really interesting, because my eyeballs told me that for the past couple of seasons the only guys doing really well on the D-line were Atkins and Dunlap.  Maybe we were spoiled by MJ's breakout year and expect pure gas across the board?

Thank you.  When you watched the games, you didn't see much pressure when it was really needed from just the front four.  That was the result of a number of things:

MJ largely ineffective as a pass rusher
Billings injury led to Peko playing 90% of snaps
LBs couldn't cover, leading to easy check downs
Dunlap and Atkins playing nearly every snap wore them down

I am very optimistic that Willis can rotate in at both LDE and RDE, while Lawson will largely be off the right edge.  MJ can stuff the run pretty effectively, but I don't need to see that wide arc that takes him 10 yards upfield with no "pressure" in sight.  The blind side end MUST be a more effective pass rusher.  

I have to throw it in....sorry, but I would love to see "my guy" Fej on a couple safety blitzes.  

[SunsetBengal]

(06-24-2017, 10:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Thank you.  When you watched the games, you didn't see much pressure when it was really needed from just the front four.  That was the result of a number of things:

MJ largely ineffective as a pass rusher
Billings injury led to Peko playing 90% of snaps
LBs couldn't cover, leading to easy check downs
Dunlap and Atkins playing nearly every snap wore them down

I am very optimistic that Willis can rotate in at both LDE and RDE, while Lawson will largely be off the right edge.  MJ can stuff the run pretty effectively, but I don't need to see that wide arc that takes him 10 yards upfield with no "pressure" in sight.  The blind side end MUST be a more effective pass rusher.  

I have to throw it in....sorry, but I would love to see "my guy" Fej on a couple safety blitzes.  

Yes, they need to get off the field, on 3rd and medium.  QBs making those check down throws makes for a long, tiring day for the defense, particularly when there aren't enough effective backups to rotate in.  Also, I would add that they need to keep things more "vanilla" on 1st and 2nd down, and just execute well in base.  Showing too much of a defense's package stuff, on 1st and 2nd downs makes it easy for the opposing OL to know what to expect in critical downs.

[3wt]

(06-23-2017, 07:07 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/defense-and-pass-pressure-2016

First of all they point out that even though sacks are big, pressuring a QB without getting a sack is also very important to a defense.  QBs under pressure average 2 yards less per attempt, had their completion percentage drop by almost 25 points, and see their TD to INT ration cut in half.

The Bengals were able to generate "pressure plays" on 30.8% of opponents pass plays.  That ranked 6th in the league, but was not that far behind the #1 Bronco's 32.2%.  The Colts were last in the league with only 19.0%.

Next the looked at the teams' defensive efficiency (DVOA) "with pressure" compared to "without pressure".  The bigger the difference the more a teams pass defense depends on the pass rush.  The bengals ranked 18th in DVOA difference which means they are pretty much average.

Finally they ranked each teams "Pressure percentage" based on the number of rushers.  They broke it down into 3 catagories "Three or fewer", "four", and "five or more".  The Bengals were the second best team in the league in getting pressure with 3 or fewer, seventh when rushing 4, and fourth when rushing 5 or more.  The Panthers and eagles were the only other teams to rank in the top 10 in all three catagories.  But these numbers might be a little misleading.  For example the Eagles were #1 in pressure percentage while rushing 3 or fewer with an incredible 77.8%, but they only rushed 3 or fewer a total of nine plays all year.  So take these numbers with a grain of salt.

Interesting stats.  And I think they will improve this year.  I think we'll end up getting more pressure of the right edge and the in the middle.

[grampahol]

Interesting, but I'm still not convinced our rookies will have a significant impact the first year the way they're being talked up. Maybe I'll get surprised and they'll come on like gangbusters, but we've seen this movie many times before and the most unlikely guy always gets the girl while everyone else ends up playing with themselves.. It's written in the script. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-23-2017, 07:07 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/defense-and-pass-pressure-2016

First of all they point out that even though sacks are big, pressuring a QB without getting a sack is also very important to a defense. QBs under pressure average 2 yards less per attempt, had their completion percentage drop by almost 25 points, and see their TD to INT ration cut in half.

The Bengals were able to generate "pressure plays" on 30.8% of opponents pass plays. That ranked 6th in the league, but was not that far behind the #1 Bronco's 32.2%. The Colts were last in the league with only 19.0%.

Next the looked at the teams' defensive efficiency (DVOA) "with pressure" compared to "without pressure". The bigger the difference the more a teams pass defense depends on the pass rush. The bengals ranked 18th in DVOA difference which means they are pretty much average.

Finally they ranked each teams "Pressure percentage" based on the number of rushers. They broke it down into 3 catagories "Three or fewer", "four", and "five or more". The Bengals were the second best team in the league in getting pressure with 3 or fewer, seventh when rushing 4, and fourth when rushing 5 or more. The Panthers and eagles were the only other teams to rank in the top 10 in all three catagories. But these numbers might be a little misleading. For example the Eagles were #1 in pressure percentage while rushing 3 or fewer with an incredible 77.8%, but they only rushed 3 or fewer a total of nine plays all year. So take these numbers with a grain of salt.

It's like the ghost of fredtoast past . . .

[eoxyod]

Was Fred banned or something? Because this literally reads exactly like a Fred post. Haven't been on in a minute...

Anyways our pass rush was never the worst but it was still clear pressure came from Dunlap and Atkins alone, and when they were out of the rotation the team striggled togenerate anything

[*psychdoctor*]

I think this year the Bengals defense is going to be downright scary with the addition of Carl Larsson and Willis

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-25-2017, 04:07 AM)eoxyod Wrote: Was Fred banned or something? Because this literally reads exactly like a Fred post. Haven't been on in a minute...

Anyways our pass rush was never the worst but it was still clear pressure came from Dunlap and Atkins alone, and when they were out of the rotation the team striggled togenerate anything

Him and the alias he rode in on.

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2017, 04:07 AM)eoxyod Wrote: Was Fred banned or something? Because this literally reads exactly like a Fred post. Haven't been on in a minute...

It is a sad state of affairs.