Athlon Magazine Picks Bengals 3rd in AFC

[*jason*]

(06-18-2017, 03:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My stance is that if players are fumbling, throwing picks, choking games away, not blocking, etc...then maybe the coaches aren't coaching them up well enough. Either that, or we picked some shitty players, and our coaches seem heavily involved with that as well. I understand blaming players. I do it myself (depending on circumstances), but I never just blame players and let coaches off the hook. When you hand pick players and your job is to get them to perform, them's the breaks. Chain of command and all that jazz. 

As to your point, it got me curious to look at how the Bengals have performed under Marvin down the stretch each year. By my count, we've been in the playoff hunt late in the season 9 times. In 7 of those seasons, we had a disappointing record down the stretch (lost last couple games, lost 3 of last 5, etc). In contrast, we've been out of the playoff chase 5 times, and in all 5 of those seasons, we've had a surprisingly good finish all 5 times. 

Simply put, Marvin's teams just can't handle pressure (news flash, I know). The only time where the Bengals really turned in a clutch run to make the playoffs was in 2012, when they started 3-5, then went 7-1 to finish the season. Outside of that, they tend to fold as pressure mounts, or bounce back (dead-cat bounce) when the pressure is off. Add all this to the terrible record against the Steelers (chief rival) and their record in prime-time and playoffs, and it's easy to see the impact a coach can have on a team.

The Bengals finishing strong in those 5 seasons that they've been out of the hunt shows me that players don't quit on Marvin. It's one of the few compliments I can still pay him. May be it is because the pressure is off, as you suggest, but I've seen plenty of other teams just mail it in in similar situations.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-18-2017, 03:39 PM)jason Wrote: The Bengals finishing strong in those 5 seasons that they've been out of the hunt shows me that players don't quit on Marvin. It's one of the few compliments I can still pay him. May be it is because the pressure is off, as you suggest, but I've seen plenty of other teams just mail it in in similar situations.

Well sometimes the coach isn't really popular with the players, so why try to save his job? I do think the players like Marvin. He's definitely a player's coach.

I honestly think the negative of failing when the pressure is on outweighs the benefit of players "not giving up" during lost seasons.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-18-2017, 03:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My stance is that if players are fumbling, throwing picks, choking games away, not blocking, etc...then maybe the coaches aren't coaching them up well enough. Either that, or we picked some shitty players, and our coaches seem heavily involved with that as well. I understand blaming players. I do it myself (depending on circumstances), but I never just blame players and let coaches off the hook. When you hand pick players and your job is to get them to perform, them's the breaks. Chain of command and all that jazz. 

As to your point, it got me curious to look at how the Bengals have performed under Marvin down the stretch each year. By my count, we've been in the playoff hunt late in the season 9 times. In 7 of those seasons, we had a disappointing record down the stretch (lost last couple games, lost 3 of last 5, etc). In contrast, we've been out of the playoff chase 5 times, and in all 5 of those seasons, we've had a surprisingly good finish all 5 times. 

Simply put, Marvin's teams just can't handle pressure (news flash, I know). The only time where the Bengals really turned in a clutch run to make the playoffs was in 2012, when they started 3-5, then went 7-1 to finish the season. Outside of that, they tend to fold as pressure mounts, or bounce back (dead-cat bounce) when the pressure is off. Add all this to the terrible record against the Steelers (chief rival) and their record in prime-time and playoffs, and it's easy to see the impact a coach can have on a team.

Exactly,

Of like the couple dozen chances Marvin Lewis lead teams have had in "big games" we've spit the bit in all but 3 or 4. And of course every time in the playoffs.

As has been gone over a zillion times, it's been with different players, different OC/DC's, different circumstances etc. But the folding up remains constant with Marvin.

I can't see how (at this point) Marvin can ever change that. 

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-18-2017, 03:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  The only time where the Bengals really turned in a clutch run to make the playoffs was in 2012, when they started 3-5, then went 7-1 to finish the season.

In 2014 we won 5 of our last 7 and 2 of our last three to make the playoffs.  Huge win on the road against Broncos in week 16 was as clutch as it gets.

In 2013 we won 5 of our last 6 including big win against Colts when they were really good.

Guess it all depends on your perspective

[Shake n Blake]

(06-19-2017, 02:53 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: In 2014 we won 5 of our last 7 and 2 of our last three to make the playoffs.  Huge win on the road against Broncos in week 16 was as clutch as it gets.

In 2013 we won 5 of our last 6 including big win against Colts when they were really good.

Guess it all depends on your perspective

Meh. We were good all through 2013, starting off the season 6-2.

Same with 2014, when we started out 5-3-1.

The runs at the end weren't really any better than the start.

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-21-2017, 12:08 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. We were good all through 2013, starting off the season 6-2.

Same with 2014, when we started out 5-3-1.

The runs at the end weren't really any better than the start.

You would have given Marvin more credit for those finishes and been more impressed if the Bengals had been worse at the start of the season?

I don't see any logic in that.  To me a strong finish to make the playoffs is a "cluth run" no matter how the season started.  I don't see how playing worse at the start of the season means the head coach is better.

[CINwillWIN]

(06-21-2017, 11:56 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: You would have given Marvin more credit for those finishes and been more impressed if the Bengals had been worse at the start of the season?

I don't see any logic in that.  To me a strong finish to make the playoffs is a "cluth run" no matter how the season started.  I don't see how playing worse at the start of the season means the head coach is better.

Finishing strong is what always needs to happen, but winning the games early justifies the team as a contender. Playing bad at the beginning of the season just happens, and this past season there were a lot that factored in, a lot of missed calls, and a lot of missed field goals. Sometimes it is out of the coaches' hands. 

[cincyfan429]

Losing talented players hurts that's for sure, but the Bengals lost good coaches like Zimmer and Jackson, and they keep people like Alexander and good old Marvin. Plus don't forget Marvin's son is a coach on the team too. A strange twist of fate they fire Marvin and make his kid head coach.

[J24]

It's all on the o line if they suck we will suck if there anywhere to decent to great we will make it to at least the AFC championship.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-18-2017, 03:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My stance is that if players are fumbling, throwing picks, choking games away, not blocking, etc...then maybe the coaches aren't coaching them up well enough. Either that, or we picked some shitty players, and our coaches seem heavily involved with that as well. I understand blaming players. I do it myself (depending on circumstances), but I never just blame players and let coaches off the hook. When you hand pick players and your job is to get them to perform, them's the breaks. Chain of command and all that jazz. 

As to your point, it got me curious to look at how the Bengals have performed under Marvin down the stretch each year. By my count, we've been in the playoff hunt late in the season 9 times. In 7 of those seasons, we had a disappointing record down the stretch (lost last couple games, lost 3 of last 5, etc). In contrast, we've been out of the playoff chase 5 times, and in all 5 of those seasons, we've had a surprisingly good finish all 5 times. 

Simply put, Marvin's teams just can't handle pressure (news flash, I know). The only time where the Bengals really turned in a clutch run to make the playoffs was in 2012, when they started 3-5, then went 7-1 to finish the season. Outside of that, they tend to fold as pressure mounts, or bounce back (dead-cat bounce) when the pressure is off. Add all this to the terrible record against the Steelers (chief rival) and their record in prime-time and playoffs, and it's easy to see the impact a coach can have on a team.

If the coaches aren't putting the players in a position to succeed with play calling, fundamentals, making in game adjustments, and teaching situational football, then the players won't succeed.  It goes beyond just play calling.  The deer in the headlights look from players in critical situations tells me what I need to know....they look lost.  Why is that you think?

[Pat5775]

(06-22-2017, 12:13 AM)cincyfan429 Wrote: Losing talented players hurts that's for sure, but the Bengals lost good coaches like Zimmer and Jackson, and they keep people like Alexander and good old Marvin. Plus don't forget Marvin's son is a coach on the team too. A strange twist of fate they fire Marvin and make his kid head coach.

Dude... Don't even joke about that

[Pat5775]

(06-18-2017, 11:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly,

Of like the couple dozen chances Marvin Lewis lead teams have had in "big games" we've spit the bit in all but 3 or 4. And of course every time in the playoffs.

As has been gone over a zillion times, it's been with different players, different OC/DC's, different circumstances etc. But the folding up remains constant with Marvin.

I can't see how (at this point) Marvin can ever change that. 

Bingo, my man. 

At this point, I don't know why anyone would defend Marv anymore. How much more evidence do some people need? Of course, there are "some people" that would still say firing Chuck Bresnahan was a bad idea 

Some people just refuse to be wrong, or just thoroughly enjoy causing drama. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-22-2017, 10:52 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Bingo, my man. 

At this point, I don't know why anyone would defend Marv anymore. How much more evidence do some people need? Of course, there are "some people" that would still say firing Chuck Bresnahan was a bad idea 

Some people just refuse to be wrong, or just thoroughly enjoy causing drama. 

Completely agree Pat. The writing is on the wall in big black bold letters.

MARVIN LEWIS CANNOT WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS.

[kevin]

I see Street and Smith, a long time Pro Football Summer prediction magazine is out. They have Bengals finishing 2nd in AFC and say Bengals will be pretty good. Although I'm not sure of their idea of pretty good, since they don't have Bengals in Play-Offs....For a Bengals team trying to WIN a play-off game for first time since 1990 season, and hoping AJ Green and Company can go Super Bowl before it all blows up, I can't agree that missing the play-offs and watching Pittsburg Steelers in play-offs would be good. To a New York writer that may be good, not to a Bengals Fan.

So Athlon has Bengals having a lousy season due to offensive line, and Street and Smith things Bengals will bounce back but not enough to make play-offs. I guess they figure 8-8 is good for Cincinnati.

I myself feel if the O Line can BLOCK, and if the D can TACKLE, Super Bowl could be possible. We will start to see what we have in August preseason. I agree with the one mag that says all the WR's and RB's we drafted won't mean a thing if we can't block. That's just Football 101. ...but if they open run lanes, and if they open passing lanes and give Dalton the needed time to drop back and throw, then this team could be awesome. The #1 law of football is protect the QB. Protect the Superstar as in Longest Yard movie. They do that and they can win. They don't and it's one long bad season.

[Atomic Orange]

Everyone is sleeping on our defense (addition of Billings, Minter and Burfict's conditioning specifically), and Dalton's release time.

I have it in my head we are going to be hard to score on.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-22-2017, 11:07 PM)kevin Wrote: I see Street and Smith, a long time Pro Football Summer prediction magazine is out.  They have Bengals finishing 2nd in AFC and say Bengals will be pretty good.  Although I'm not sure of their idea of pretty good, since they don't have Bengals in Play-Offs....For a Bengals team trying to WIN a play-off game for first time since 1990 season, and hoping AJ Green and Company can go Super Bowl before it all blows up,  I can't agree that missing the play-offs and watching Pittsburg Steelers in play-offs would be good.  To a New York writer that may be good, not to a Bengals Fan.

So Athlon has Bengals having a lousy season due to offensive line, and Street and Smith things Bengals will bounce back but not enough to make play-offs.  I guess they figure 8-8 is good for Cincinnati.

I myself feel if the O Line can BLOCK, and if the D can TACKLE, Super Bowl could be possible. We will start to see what we have in August preseason. I agree with the one mag that says all the WR's and RB's we drafted won't mean a thing if we can't block.  That's just Football 101.  ...but if they open run lanes, and if they open passing lanes and give Dalton the needed time to drop back and throw, then this team could be awesome.  The #1 law of football is protect the QB. Protect the Superstar as in Longest Yard movie.  They do that and they can win. They don't and it's one long bad season.

If we are 2nd in the AFC we will make the Playoffs, i think you meant 2nd in the AFC North Kev.

All true, the O-line is where it is at. If they play well, we will be in the Playoffs and probably have a high seed.

We will win the Division if our O-line plays well and injuries don't decimate us.

(06-22-2017, 11:29 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Everyone is sleeping on our defense (addition of Billings, Minter and Burfict's conditioning specifically), and Dalton's release time.

I have it in my head we are going to be hard to score on.

This is where my hopes lie, the Defense carrying Marv's lame ass to a Playoff win, then the sky is the limit.

[Bronze Bengal]

(06-15-2017, 11:29 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Magazines take last years team and forecast how they'd do in the new season. The thing is, ALL teams are different. That's why preseason SOS is useless to look at.

Parity is what makes The NFL so unpredictable and fun.  A lot of teams look like a future dynasty after a great year then miss the playoffs the following season.  A team that is mediocre and struggling can start clicking and roar into the post season making a good run.