Lap's training camp report

[Luvnit2]

(07-30-2017, 02:13 AM)Whatever Wrote: There's a number of reasons.  His production has dipped since his rookie year, he's been dinged up, and he fumbled away our first playoff win  in 20+ years in a situation where he simply had to stay inbounds and not fumble.

He could bounce back, but we expected him to bounce back this year after a disappointing sophomore campaign, and it didn't happen.  I hope the best man wins the job, but I don't think it will be Hill.

Hill needs to improve as do 40 others every year. I do think many don't realize how hard it is to have no fumbles over the course of a year for a full time back. that showed me 1 thing, he did recover from the horrible fumble. Hill does his running between the tackles also, so lots of hands and hits trying to knock the ball free.Zero is an awesome number and he should be applauded for that part of his game in 2016.

[grampahol]

(07-29-2017, 02:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am hopeful in your line of work you always progress and never regress too.

I just don't understand why fans don't root for every player to be successful. If the rookie Mixon is better so be it, but hope he is better than a very good Hill than a very bad Hill because on the bad side being better than not good is not necessarily good or great at all.

I want all of our guys to improve year by year, if they get beat out it just means we are better than the year before.

Bingo.. I don't get it either when certain people seem to outright crave failure for certain players they don't like for whatever reasons. 
I hope every single player on this team has an absolutely amazingly great season, bar none.  I don't have the first desire to see any Bengals player fail anywhere on the field. 
It's probably unrealistic to expect them to all have the greatest season ever, but I certainly don't wish failure on any Bengals player.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-30-2017, 12:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am at a loss why some fans literally hate on players. Hill is a vet, Gio is coming back from injury and Mixon has potential with no NFL results. I hope each has a great year, if so we more than likely are back to the playoffs.

I don't get wishing ill will on player A because I like player B better.

I completely agree and don't understand the hating and/or the perceived hate that is not hate at all just an opinion ! I hope Hill comes out and burns the field up runs for 2,000 yards and scores 25 TD's. I don't however believe he will. That doesn't mean I hate Hill but some people use that or twist it just to argue IMHO.

(07-30-2017, 02:13 AM)Whatever Wrote: There's a number of reasons.  His production has dipped since his rookie year, he's been dinged up, and he fumbled away our first playoff win  in 20+ years in a situation where he simply had to stay inbounds and not fumble.

He could bounce back, but we expected him to bounce back this year after a disappointing sophomore campaign, and it didn't happen.  I hope the best man wins the job, but I don't think it will be Hill.

Agreed, I don't have a ton of faith that Hill can or will turn it around.

[SunsetBengal]

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/7/30/16063744/bengals-ol-coach-russell-bodine-contract-year


Who would have ever thought that the piano man was also a philosopher?

Quote:“I'm not going to give you the standard answer on that,” Alexander said of Bodine’s contract year. “The standard answer is hey, these guys are pros. But the real answer, the contract's the prize. I mean it really is. You're trying to be the best, and what judges the best? A guy who makes money. So I think all the players rise in a contract year. There's nothing wrong with that. It's like a trophy. That's how I really look at it. I think that's good about the pros. A lot of times people complain 'Oh, they make all this money." So what? So does the best researcher at Procter and Gamble. Is he a lousy researcher because he makes the most money? No. He aspires to be great.”

So, it would appear as Alexander has full confidence in Bodine to play well this season, and earn another contract. So much for all of us who have been hoping for the Bengals to draft the top Center, in each year's draft..

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-29-2017, 12:48 PM)jeremydc Wrote: He'll have the most Tds by rbs this year . I expect a bounce back .

I would love if he did, because that means the team is likely scoring a lot, but I would be shocked if he gets more TDs than Mixon.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-29-2017, 06:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course 1 good year matters. It shows you have the ability to perform. 

YPC takes a hit when it is stopped by the endzone 19 times in the last 2 years. 

I get folks like Mixon, but Hill is one of the better backs in the NFL. What team would not want a 230ish lb RB that has 19 TDS s in the last 2 years? Every offensive player on the Cincinnati Bengals took a hit last year.

To say what does he do besides score TDs seems kinda silly IMO

To be fair as well, it proves the point that it isn't always the fault of the offensive line.  What I mean is that the team his rookie season had multiple weapons on offense drawing attention away from stuffing the run.  Like the last time we had a 1400 yard rusher, it was due in part to the talents of Chad, TJ, and Henry.  

That isn't to say that Hill "can't do it without a ton of talent around him" and going through that whole crap but at the RB level, but Gio struggled as well.  

It all boils down to synergy to me, and the way all the moving parts of the offense work together to spread out a defense and take advantages of the mismatches created.  Perhaps what I love best about THIS team is how it appears there will be multiple ways we can attack different teams and have success.  In other words, not always so one-dimensional.  

[*ochocincos*]

(07-29-2017, 11:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is where I'm at. As I mentioned earlier Jeremy had better YPC than Gio last year. 

He is just a kid and has been productive; yet some around here are writing him off. I honestly don't get it.

I hope Jeremy, Joe, and Gio each work hard this year to outdo the other. 

Many focus on that magical YPC number - 4.0. If < 4.0, many consider that RB to be below average. Jeremy Hill was 3.8 YPC. People give Bernard a pass because he's a proficient receiver.

Jeremy Hill was also 18th in total rush yards (839) and 14th in rush attempts (222).

However, when looking at stats from last year, it should be pointed out that many people considered LeGarrette Blount to have a great season....he had 3.9 YPC. He just had a lot of attempts and TDs to compensate, so people didn't focus as much on YPC for him compared to others.

Some other RBs with sub-4.0 YPC last year:
Todd Gurley (3.2)
Frank Gore (3.9)
Melvin Gordon (3.9)
Jonathan Stewart (3.8)
Matt Forte (3.7)


So yes, exactly as you say, Jeremy Hill is not nearly as bad as some make him out to be. But Hill isn't a top 10 RB, so there's room for improvement. If Mixon can provide that, great. If not, the Bengals still have a solid rushing attack.

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2017, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Many focus on that magical YPC number - 4.0. If < 4.0, many consider that RB to be below average. Jeremy Hill was 3.8 YPC. People give Bernard a pass because he's a proficient receiver.

Jeremy Hill was also 18th in total rush yards (839) and 14th in rush attempts (222).

However, when looking at stats from last year, it should be pointed out that many people considered LeGarrette Blount to have a great season....he had 3.9 YPC. He just had a lot of attempts and TDs to compensate, so people didn't focus as much on YPC for him compared to others.

Some other RBs with sub-4.0 YPC last year:
Todd Gurley (3.2)
Frank Gore (3.9)
Melvin Gordon (3.9)
Jonathan Stewart (3.8)
Matt Forte (3.7)


So yes, exactly as you say, Jeremy Hill is not nearly as bad as some make him out to be. But Hill isn't a top 10 RB, so there's room for improvement. If Mixon can provide that, great. If not, the Bengals still have a solid rushing attack.

Agreed on all accounts; however, it is the mentality of many on the board. If you like Player A you must oppose Player B. we see it with our backup QB.

I really don't care who becomes our feature back. I just hope whoever it is balls out. My point is Hill has shown the ability to do just that.

[Luvnit2]

(07-31-2017, 12:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Agreed on all accounts; however, it is the mentality of many on the board. If you like Player A you must oppose Player B. we see it with our backup QB.

I really don't care who becomes our feature back. I just hope whoever it is balls out. My point is Hill has shown the ability to do just that.

Agree 100%

Why can't I rep you?

[grampahol]

I like a lot of fans have been following football and baseball for a long time and one thing I do know is that nearly every player goes through ups and downs. Sometimes they downward spiral and never recover, but usually they'll have a few down years then turn things around and run off a few really good years when nobody expects it. 
These are all still young men, even those who have been in the league 10+ seasons. It's a highly competitive market to play in the league so the mere fact that Jeremy Hill is still playing means that he's still good enough to be on an NFL roster. They really don't keep guys around often merely for sentimental reasons, especially running backs. There are just too many younger guys every season trying to take their place. 
The easiest thing in the world to do is to sit at home watching a game or even a season and tell everyone that you know more than any of the coaches know.  Sure, we get it. YOU are the genius and the rest of us don't know didly squat so we should just agree that everything you tell us about player X was handed down to you straight from the all mighty himself, no questions asked. I'm sorry. Maybe it's just me, but I don't quite buy it..

I still believe Jeremy Hill is still a young man with a lot to offer this team despite a few seasons not quite as good as his first season. I think we're damned lucky to have both Jeremy Hill and Joe Mixon and since I don't have the ability to see into the future I'm going to assume that Hill will have a great season right along side of Mixon. I might be wrong and he might have a horrible season, but until that happens I'm certainly not going to root for it to happen. 

[Essex Johnson]

Back to the actual thread,, day three sounds like Lap was happy with both line plays... but as he stated.. get pads on today will really start to see how both sides of the ball are progressing. Dalton sounds like he is in great early form..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Bottom line is i hope Jeremeh Hill returns to being the Jeremy Hill of his rookie season.

But even then Mixon is still a better all around RB.

To Bfine, we called out Peko for years and Fred always defended him. We liked Sims over Peko.

I like Mixon over Hill, that is all. We will see who performs better this season.

My money is on Mixon.

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2017, 12:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Agree 100%

Why can't I rep you?

I've been a bad boy

[BenZoo2]

(07-31-2017, 01:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've been a bad boy.

No use saying sorry


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[McC]

Lap continues to rave about Carl Lawson. Here's hoping he's right. Also says good things about the young T's.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-31-2017, 12:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Bottom line is i hope Jeremeh Hill returns to being the Jeremy Hill of his rookie season.

But even then Mixon is still a better all around RB.

To Bfine, we called out Peko for years and Fred always defended him. We liked Sims over Peko.

I like Mixon over Hill, that is all. We will see who performs better this season.

My money is on Mixon.

As it should be. On pure talent, Mixon was considered a 1st rounder. Hill was considered about a third rounder going into the draft, Bernard a second rounder. Neither was expected to be a complete, bell-cow RB. Mixon has that potential.

[Joelist]

Part of Hill's YPC problem is he is a power inside runner and our interior OL has had issues for years. Bodine is awful and Boling is average. Z was okay versus the pass but did not run block as well. A power back needs the interior OL to be able to fire off straight in to the opposing DL and at least open a crack in order to succeed.

[Brownshoe]

(07-31-2017, 02:07 PM)McC Wrote: Lap continues to rave about Carl Lawson.  Here's hoping he's right.  Also says good things about the young T's.

Meh, Lap was acting like Ogbuehi was playing well last off-season. I'm going to take every single thing I hear from training camp with a massive grain of salt. I hope everyone plays amazing and we win the SB, but I need to see it. I really hope that Ross, Mixon, Willis, Lawson, WJ3, Billings and all of the other new players play as good or better than what we think they will.

[WeezyBengal]

(07-29-2017, 12:48 PM)jeremydc Wrote: He'll have the most Tds by rbs this year . I expect a bounce back .

TDs are the most overrated stat in the NFL. Hill will have the most TDs because he gets the ball on the one yard line and is the teams goal line back. That doesnt mean hes good. 

[WeezyBengal]

(07-29-2017, 01:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is just not true. In 3 years Jeremy Hill has averaged 1075 yards from scrimmage per year. He has carried at over 4 YPC and averaged 10 TDs per year. He was vilified for the fumble in the '15 playoff game (fighting for yards), so what does he do? He practices carrying a 3lb ball so the gameball will feel "like an egg". The result: 241 touches in 2016 and not once did he put the ball on the ground.

Folks need to stop questioning Hill just because they like Mixon. Mixon has proved absolutely nothing in the NFL, while Hill has proven to be a productive rusher with a nose for the endzone.

Where exactly are you getting the 4 YPC stat from? In 2015 he had a 3.6 and in 2016 he had a 3.8 YPC. Are you making up stats? 

In 2016 he only had 839 rushing yards. If you discredit the Cleveland games (the only 2 games he rushed for over 100 yards and drastically skewed his YPC) then he only had a total of 560. 

Go look at his stats from last year. They are pathetic. 

Pitt - 20 attempts and 43 yards 

Philly - 23 attempts and 33 yards 

Washington - 20 attempts 70 yards 

Miami - 21 attempts 71 yards  



It has nothing to do with his fumble and everything with his productivity on the field. He's not good or productive. 2014 was three years ago, man. Give it up.