Roster spot observation

[*SHRacerX*]

I know we have been going back and forth about the roster and how we can't put certain guys on the PS as they would likely get plucked by other teams.

I noticed the following statement and hadn't realized this: "With rookie safety Brandon Wilson (knee) yet to practice since he arrived"...He is currently on the NFI (non-football injury) list, so I don't know if he is eligible for the PUP, but that could protect him.

Also, I didn't realize Peerman hadn't practiced yet this season, so he may also be able to be put on the PUP list. That would, perhaps, allow a player like Tra Carson to make the squad.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-05-2017, 12:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know we have been going back and forth about the roster and how we can't put certain guys on the PS as they would likely get plucked by other teams.

I noticed the following statement and hadn't realized this:  "With rookie safety Brandon Wilson (knee) yet to practice since he arrived"...He is currently on the NFI (non-football injury) list, so I don't know if he is eligible for the PUP, but that could protect him.

Also, I didn't realize Peerman hadn't practiced yet this season, so he may also be able to be put on the PUP list.  That would, perhaps, allow a player like Tra Carson to make the squad.

That is the thing about Brandon Wilson and why he fell so far in the draft. He really doesn't have a position so i think
if we had to put him on the PS he might stick. In the future i think this guy could be our stud ST'er though. He is a great
returner and Defensively is great at stripping the ball away, gamechanger on ST's.

Peerman is just trying to stay healthy i believe, we need him on ST's right now, dude is our best ST's player.

Don't know about Carson's ST's play, Boom Williams also should be in this conversation if he has a good Preseason.

[Murdock2420]

(08-05-2017, 02:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is the thing about Brandon Wilson and why he fell so far in the draft. He really doesn't have a position so i think
if we had to put him on the PS he might stick. In the future i think this guy could be our stud ST'er though. He is a great
returner and Defensively is great at stripping the ball away, gamechanger on ST's.

Peerman is just trying to stay healthy i believe, we need him on ST's right now, dude is our best ST's player.

Don't know about Carson's ST's play, Boom Williams also should be in this conversation if he has a good Preseason.

With Carson's work thus far at RB in training camp, it sounds like he is auditioning for other teams. Not going to be much room in the backfield with Mixon, Hill, Gio and Peerman as the ST's ace, unless Carson shows he can really step it up on ST's as well.

Wilson might be stashed all year long with that injury and that's not a bad thing. Let him sit on the IR list and find him a position.

It also is interesting to me, with all the talk about "player safety" that the league hasn't been smart enough yet to make the easiest change of all. Get away from the Practice Squad and just increase the roster size. Give teams 70 spots, and dress 60. Would have a huge impact on guys not having to play hurt to make a team or staying in a game hurt due to shortage of players on the bench.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-05-2017, 04:26 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: With Carson's work thus far at RB in training camp, it sounds like he is auditioning for other teams. Not going to be much room in the backfield with Mixon, Hill, Gio and Peerman as the ST's ace, unless Carson shows he can really step it up on ST's as well.

Wilson might be stashed all year long with that injury and that's not a bad thing. Let him sit on the IR list and find him a position.

It also is interesting to me, with all the talk about "player safety" that the league hasn't been smart enough yet to make the easiest change of all. Get away from the Practice Squad and just increase the roster size. Give teams 70 spots, and dress 60. Would have a huge impact on guys not having to play hurt to make a team or staying in a game hurt due to shortage of players on the bench.

Great post Murdock, completely agree with everything you said.

Doubt Carson makes the team unless a bad injury occurs knock on wood. I like the guy though.

Spot on about the PS and what the NFL should do to solve this problem. Just increase the roster size. Brilliant and simple.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-05-2017, 04:26 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: With Carson's work thus far at RB in training camp, it sounds like he is auditioning for other teams. Not going to be much room in the backfield with Mixon, Hill, Gio and Peerman as the ST's ace, unless Carson shows he can really step it up on ST's as well.

Wilson might be stashed all year long with that injury and that's not a bad thing. Let him sit on the IR list and find him a position.

It also is interesting to me, with all the talk about "player safety" that the league hasn't been smart enough yet to make the easiest change of all. Get away from the Practice Squad and just increase the roster size. Give teams 70 spots, and dress 60. Would have a huge impact on guys not having to play hurt to make a team or staying in a game hurt due to shortage of players on the bench.

I could get on board with adding a few extra spots to the 53 man roster, maybe 58 total, and allow 50 to dress.  Even that would take some serious addition to the total revenue share that the salary cap receives.  Not so sure that the Owners would be ready to jump on board.  With the NFL losing both viewers and advertisers, I can't really see that happening.  

http://www.marketingdive.com/news/report-nfl-losing-top-ad-spenders-as-viagra-cialis-drop-out/446674/

[Essex Johnson]

Core vs. Malone vs Erickson

From todays scrimmage it was Malone, Erickson, Core as far as who had the better days.. I actually thought Core had a bad day.. one or two drops, lack of separation today.. Malone had at least 3 catches.. Erickson 2 and both ran well after catch...

I like Core but so far I put Malone ahead of him on just training camp...

[Murdock2420]

(08-05-2017, 05:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I could get on board with adding a few extra spots to the 53 man roster, maybe 58 total, and allow 50 to dress.  Even that would take some serious addition to the total revenue share that the salary cap receives.  Not so sure that the Owners would be ready to jump on board.  With the NFL losing both viewers and advertisers, I can't really see that happening.  

http://www.marketingdive.com/news/report-nfl-losing-top-ad-spenders-as-viagra-cialis-drop-out/446674/

NFL is losing viewers and advertisers because the product on the field is going to hell. With all the "subjective" penalties, the constant flags and ref huddles, and then add in the quality of play going down due to injuries and no real back-ups.

The increase in roster size allows you to have better back-ups in place in case of injury, perhaps lighten up a little on this subjective penalties and suck it up and hire full time refs. The product on the field becomes better and then revenue starts to flow in again.

Of course, it's not like any of these owners are in fear of being bankrupt...ever...

[SunsetBengal]

(08-05-2017, 05:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: NFL is losing viewers and advertisers because the product on the field is going to hell. With all the "subjective" penalties, the constant flags and ref huddles, and then add in the quality of play going down due to injuries and no real back-ups.

The increase in roster size allows you to have better back-ups in place in case of injury, perhaps lighten up a little on this subjective penalties and suck it up and hire full time refs. The product on the field becomes better and then revenue starts to flow in again.

Of course, it's not like any of these owners are in fear of being bankrupt...ever...

I'm not arguing about the reasons that they are losing viewers and advertisers, in fact I agree whole heartedly with your explanation of your perception of the reasons why.  However, I will say this.  Ref huddles should become a thing of the past, as replay (and you can believe that pretty much all close calls will now be decided by "headquarters") (which I think is bullshit, why are they paying refs?)

Your comment about no "real" backups causes me to recall a bygone era.  Before free agency was a thing, teams actually were able to stockpile starter quality players on their roster, with no fear of them leaving to other teams.  Some fans might see the freedom of free agency as a bad thing, but for the players in general, it has been a great thing, being able to market their skills to the highest bidder, based on the merit of their abilities.  

Also, keep in mind that the NFL is still technically listed as a non-profit entity. (how the hell does that happen??)  But, they are all about making money.  They hold onto it, tighter than any other sports league.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-05-2017, 02:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is the thing about Brandon Wilson and why he fell so far in the draft. He really doesn't have a position so i think
if we had to put him on the PS he might stick. In the future i think this guy could be our stud ST'er though. He is a great
returner and Defensively is great at stripping the ball away, gamechanger on ST's.

Peerman is just trying to stay healthy i believe, we need him on ST's right now, dude is our best ST's player.

Don't know about Carson's ST's play, Boom Williams also should be in this conversation if he has a good Preseason.

With all these guys fighting for spots...I wouldn't bet against them in the preseason.

[*Go Cards*]

Big fan of Carson's but do not see him making squad unless it is ST

[BoBengal]

(08-05-2017, 02:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is the thing about Brandon Wilson and why he fell so far in the draft. He really doesn't have a position so i think
if we had to put him on the PS he might stick. In the future i think this guy could be our stud ST'er though. He is a great
returner and Defensively is great at stripping the ball away, gamechanger on ST's.

Peerman is just trying to stay healthy i believe, we need him on ST's right now, dude is our best ST's player.

Don't know about Carson's ST's play, Boom Williams also should be in this conversation if he has a good Preseason.

I agree on all of this.

[BenZoo2]

(08-05-2017, 05:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: NFL is losing viewers and advertisers because the product on the field is going to hell. With all the "subjective" penalties, the constant flags and ref huddles, and then add in the quality of play going down due to injuries and no real back-ups.

The increase in roster size allows you to have better back-ups in place in case of injury, perhaps lighten up a little on this subjective penalties and suck it up and hire full time refs. The product on the field becomes better and then revenue starts to flow in again.

Of course, it's not like any of these owners are in fear of being bankrupt...ever...

I'm confused.  You say the quality of play is going down, in part, due to no real back ups.  And the solution is to increase the roster size?  Wouldn't that just mean more no real backups?  

There are numerous changes the nfl could adopt to improve the product if it is indeed suffering.

[Murdock2420]

(08-05-2017, 10:26 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I'm confused.  You say the quality of play is going down, in part, due to no real back ups.  And the solution is to increase the roster size?  Wouldn't that just mean more no real backups?  

There are numerous changes the nfl could adopt to improve the product if it is indeed suffering.

No real back-ups meaning a cap on the number of players on the team causing good players to be cut and scooped up by other teams, instead of carrying enough guys at each position and then having back-ups on your team that know the playbook and can step in.

If you get hit at one position, say Corner or WR, and you have to sign guys off the street, how fast can they learn the playbook? If you have depth at every spot with guys who while not as talented as the starters know their jobs and the scheme, that makes for better back-ups. It also allows you to keep a few developmental type guys and groom them into good players without handicapping your team. 

Think about the playoff game when Burkhead had to play WR because of how decimated the team was at WR and then Gresham didn't go with the back injury. Having an extra WR or 2 or an extra WR and TE that had been with the team all season certainly would have been nice in that game and probably made it a better quality game.

[Murdock2420]

(08-05-2017, 06:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not arguing about the reasons that they are losing viewers and advertisers, in fact I agree whole heartedly with your explanation of your perception of the reasons why.  However, I will say this.  Ref huddles should become a thing of the past, as replay (and you can believe that pretty much all close calls will now be decided by "headquarters") (which I think is bullshit, why are they paying refs?)

Your comment about no "real" backups causes me to recall a bygone era.  Before free agency was a thing, teams actually were able to stockpile starter quality players on their roster, with no fear of them leaving to other teams.  Some fans might see the freedom of free agency as a bad thing, but for the players in general, it has been a great thing, being able to market their skills to the highest bidder, based on the merit of their abilities.  

Also, keep in mind that the NFL is still technically listed as a non-profit entity. (how the hell does that happen??)  But, they are all about making money.  They hold onto it, tighter than any other sports league.

Got to love the loop-holes of a well done corporate structure..... 

[Jpoore]

(08-05-2017, 05:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Core vs. Malone vs Erickson

From todays scrimmage it was Malone, Erickson, Core as far as who had the better days.. I actually thought Core had a bad day.. one or two drops, lack of separation today.. Malone had at least 3 catches.. Erickson 2 and both ran well after catch...

I like Core but so far I put Malone ahead of him on just training camp...

7 WRs will make the 53 with 6 dressing for game day. Green, lafell, Erickson. Ross, Malone, Boyd.

[grampahol]

Personally I'd like to see a minor league system in place like baseball instead of just college, but that isn't in the cards. It wouldn't have to be as extensive as baseball with the different levels,  but there are plenty of towns and cities that could support MLF..
The problem is that they would definitely be directly competing with college ball, but heck,  it's a business. 
Colleges are supposedly in the business of educating young people instead of being the minor league of football.. Perhaps MLF would force colleges to refocus on education. I have no doubt I'm not alone in this thinking.. 
I'm hoping Malone makes a big splash especially in the regular season.  

[Luvnit2]

I understand fans could care less about economics, but going to 70 is just not a good idea for a number of reasons. Financially if the league minimum salary is around $450,000 a year and a practice squad player makes $25 to $50K you are malking around $400K per player added or 6.8 million per year per team. The second part is the veteran players would not like it as job security for vets when get worse than it is now and right now it is not good for them.

It sound like a good idea, but to me the real answer is for each team to have 1 minor league football team. For example, maybe the Bengals minor league team would play in Kentucky in Louisville or Lexington. This would help expand their base and allow these teams to make money while guys played the game. Each team would own the rights to the players and they could bring them up just like the Reds do if needed or trade them to other teams. They could play on Saturday night so no conflict with NFL games.

[HarleyDog]

(08-06-2017, 02:58 AM)grampahol Wrote: Personally I'd like to see a minor league system in place like baseball instead of just college, but that isn't in the cards. It wouldn't have to be as extensive as baseball with the different levels,  but there are plenty of towns and cities that could support MLF..
The problem is that they would definitely be directly competing with college ball, but heck,  it's a business. 
Colleges are supposedly in the business of educating young people instead of being the minor league of football.. Perhaps MLF would force colleges to refocus on education. I have no doubt I'm not alone in this thinking.. 
I'm hoping Malone makes a big splash especially in the regular season.  

College is MLF. Anything beyond that is reducing the quality of players on the field and many would not make it due to injuries. As we all realize, football is a tough sport. So if we had a minor league team, by the time they wear the stripes, half of their career may be gone?

[*Synric*]

(08-06-2017, 02:58 AM)grampahol Wrote: Personally I'd like to see a minor league system in place like baseball instead of just college, but that isn't in the cards. It wouldn't have to be as extensive as baseball with the different levels,  but there are plenty of towns and cities that could support MLF..
The problem is that they would definitely be directly competing with college ball, but heck,  it's a business. 
Colleges are supposedly in the business of educating young people instead of being the minor league of football.. Perhaps MLF would force colleges to refocus on education. I have no doubt I'm not alone in this thinking.. 
I'm hoping Malone makes a big splash especially in the regular season.  

There has been quite a few minor leagues. Most fail because they took players that failed to get into the NFL after college

But....I read that they are trying to make a new developmental league

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-06-2017, 02:05 AM)Jpoore Wrote: 7 WRs will make the 53 with 6 dressing for game day. Green, lafell, Erickson. Ross, Malone, Boyd.

We all love Malone, but he isn't dressing over Cody Core any time soon, unless an injury dictates that...