Posts: 3,742
Threads: 44
Reputation:
13919
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio, but with hookers and blackjack
I'll try to see if this works since I did it all on Twitter and I've been away from the forum game.
Hands are low and late wide. This gives the DE his chest and the ability to dictate the play.
Here you see a bad set first and foremost. It's shallow and the DE just explodes beyond his set. Then you see his hips turn open giving the DE the edge and the win on the rep. Luckily every pass is designed to be a quick fire pass and McCarron fires to the underneath. He has no room to drop back or move.
In this rep his first move is up and then left. The DE just runs around him. Again, quick throw and flag bail out an awful rep.
This is possibly his best pass pro rep. The DE is indecisive about attacking and ***** foots around before trying to bull. Hands sill are wide and late so the DE gets his hands in. Doesn't impact the play but it is bad form and a repetitive issue you see in his game.
This is his best block of the game in the run or pass. He gets the double off then hits the incoming defender. Now he needs to turn and attack up field so he is not in the way of the RB and to possibly break it wide.
Solid block as he stalemates with the DE. 89 takes out Boling's legs on what should have been a huge gain.
Another shallow drop with his hands low and wide. He's late firing them and the DE gets in his chest and drives him to the QB. Luckily the throw is quick.
Tries for the Tyron slingshot block but just whiffs. No first step. Lifts his foot and puts it back down. Gains no ground and the DE burns him. Be decisive.
Another save by way of quick release. There's no time for the QB to make anything happen. Everything is going to come from the skill guys. He bites on the inside fake. Can't recover to the edge. Hips turn open.
Tale of two tackles same play as above. Watch Fisher and Ced here. Ced is late and bites on the fake. Fisher gets in his set then fires the hands. Ced is too passive and gets caught flat.
This is the new offense. Dump and chase at OT. No long developing plays. Short sets and hope the ball is out for YAC.
Again, passive in nature hurts him. Attack. OL play is not a passive act. Could have been a great block.
This is a very good down block with Boling. He pulls off to the LB. It's aggressive and has a decisive nature to it.
Watch how long the DE is engaged before Ced tries to grab on the outside and is immediately dismissed.
I feel like this collection shows the issues with Ced the best.
I could post every play but it's repetitive at a certain point.
His best plays came on zone blocks where he was doubling down or the DE crashed hard. These play into his strengths as a run blocker. His passiveness with his hands is a fatal flaw. He's so late and slow to engage he's giving up his chest or his edge every time.
He's not getting into good sets, his hand placement is still very bad, he takes bad first steps and he's wildly passive to the point of being a liability.
When he actually attacks, he's capable of making blocks. But it's so few and far between and surrounded by piss poor technique that it's seeming more and more unlikely he'll be anything more than what he is now.
Posts: 8,232
Threads: 97
Reputation:
22072
Joined: Nov 2015
I still have disagree from watching the tape, overall I don;t have a problem with his width of hands are not a problem as a whole.. his first steps are decent,, his balance overall was much better than before... as for pushing wide but then getting beat on the corner on a quick pass, you have to understand we don;t know the play call but can only assume.. on a play designed to be quick.. you want to push your man wide but don't want to get beat inside.. so what he did is fine but as i stated before,, his main area of weakness that I observed was his continuation of the play on his 2/3 step etc and going to the whistle.
Posts: 3,742
Threads: 44
Reputation:
13919
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio, but with hookers and blackjack
(08-14-2017, 06:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I still have disagree from watching the tape, overall I don;t have a problem with his width of hands are not a problem as a whole.. his first steps are decent,, his balance overall was much better than before... as for pushing wide but then getting beat on the corner on a quick pass, you have to understand we don;t know the play call but can only assume.. on a play designed to be quick.. you want to push your man wide but don't want to get beat inside.. so what he did is fine but as i stated before,, his main area of weakness that I observed was his continuation of the play on his 2/3 step etc and going to the whistle.
I literally post video evidence and you stick your head in the sand still. Unbelievable.
His first steps are not decent. At least 2x he didn't even make one. And other times he's so shallow that the DE has the edge before the ball is to the QB. That is a problem.
You don't have a problem with him exposing his chest and allowing defenders to dictate the play? Okay. That's good for you but you won't win many games with that. He's not strong enough to consistently be wide and muscle guys. Very few are.
Yes we do not know and I even said it has been designed that way. He's not pushing them wide though. He's just not engaging them and hoping the ball is out. If the play IS NOT quick, he's never in position to help extend the play because he's giving up the edge automatically.
You are missing the nuance and the reasons why this is a problem.
This is a problem because it means we CANNOT do anything but these quick plays.
If you choose to ignore that and think it's fine the QB can't drop in the pocket or can't extend a play that's fine. But don't complain if we struggle to throw deep or have a lot of turnovers when defenders sit on the routes because they know it has to be a quick throw. You can't have both things.
Posts: 7,828
Threads: 281
Reputation:
31873
Joined: May 2015
I thought wrastling with some old guys twice his age for like a month this offseason was gonna whip the panzy out of him.
I want to like you OG. But ever since they called his name in the forwt round and i was like HUH?!!? Who? I had concerns.
We dont have all year to hope he toughens up.
Posts: 25,834
Threads: 649
Reputation:
243056
Joined: May 2015
Location: Jackson, OH
I tend to agree with most of Royal Redlegs' observations. He seems late, slow, wide, weak. He better get what they describe in the old days as "some fire under his ass", or else live competition will eat him up. Notice how easily he is shoved out of the way, when the DE wants to make his move to the QB..
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
Posts: 4,361
Threads: 26
Reputation:
19347
Joined: May 2015
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Ugh... Not encouraging at all. I REALLY hope the team knows what they're doing
Posts: 16,084
Threads: 251
Reputation:
183922
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio
Great breakdown RoyaleRedlegs, thanks.
I'll continue to say I'm very concerned with Ogbuehi's play whether I get flamed or not. I've stated many, many times on here his passiveness greatly concerns me, his apparent and/or real lack of desire concerns me ! You can't coach that up - ever.
Guys keep talking about technique, confidence, footwork, etc. But the killer instinct is just not there, that's the downfall IMHO.
Posts: 25,834
Threads: 649
Reputation:
243056
Joined: May 2015
Location: Jackson, OH
The funny part is, to the casual observer, he just looks like any other OL man. just playing his position. I encourage those of you who question, to watch closely to those videos. Take notice of the physical tendencies that not only put Ced at a disadvantage to get good leverage on his opponent, but also allow him to be thrown off balance so easily.
Had this been an actual game, they might have had to have Boling pull around, behind Ogbuehi, just to take out that DE's knees one time...
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
Posts: 11,960
Threads: 103
Reputation:
81482
Joined: May 2015
Just get better each week, Ced. The CedO police will have you under a microscope all year.
Posts: 25,834
Threads: 649
Reputation:
243056
Joined: May 2015
Location: Jackson, OH
(08-14-2017, 07:04 PM)McC Wrote: Just get better each week, Ced. The CedO police will have you under a microscope all year.
With good reason.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
Posts: 3,742
Threads: 44
Reputation:
13919
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio, but with hookers and blackjack
(08-14-2017, 07:04 PM)McC Wrote: Just get better each week, Ced. The CedO police will have you under a microscope all year.
If this were a QB who wasn't setting his feet and sailing balls or having too long of a wind up and the ball was getting out late would you be this forgiving?
What if it were a CB who was slow out of his back-peddle and getting burned multiple times?
Why should this be magically forgiven and why are people who want bad play held accountable the "CedO Police" instead of just regular fans who want to see things done well?
Why can't we be critical of bad play?
Posts: 11,960
Threads: 103
Reputation:
81482
Joined: May 2015
(08-14-2017, 07:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With good reason.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
Whatever. He won't need coaches. He'll have an army of amateurs riding his ass all year.
Posts: 11,960
Threads: 103
Reputation:
81482
Joined: May 2015
(08-14-2017, 07:10 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: If this were a QB who wasn't setting his feet and sailing balls or having too long of a wind up and the ball was getting out late would you be this forgiving?
What if it were a CB who was slow out of his back-peddle and getting burned multiple times?
Why should this be magically forgiven and why are people who want bad play held accountable the "CedO Police" instead of just regular fans who want to see things done well?
Why can't we be critical of bad play?
All I know is he was better than last year and we're one preseason game into it. Neither QB got sacked while he played and there were holes in the running game. I say so far, so good.
As bad as he was last year, did you really expect him to be transformed overnight?
The harder people rag on him, the harder I will root for him.
Posts: 25,834
Threads: 649
Reputation:
243056
Joined: May 2015
Location: Jackson, OH
(08-14-2017, 07:11 PM)McC Wrote: Whatever. He won't need coaches. He'll have an army of amateurs riding his ass all year.
Then, it's a good thing that he's getting his criticism from the coaches, and you're the one getting hurt feelings about other fans not being satisfied with him.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
Posts: 3,742
Threads: 44
Reputation:
13919
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio, but with hookers and blackjack
(08-14-2017, 07:14 PM)McC Wrote: All I know is he was better than last year and we're one preseason game into it. Neither QB got sacked while he played and there were holes in the running game. I say so far, so good.
As bad as he was last year, did you really expect him to be transformed overnight?
The harder people rag on him, the harder I will root for him.
He wasn't really better. That's the point.
And this is proof you didn't read or try to comprehend what I wrote.
He still has the same technique flaws he had last year. They have not gone away.
Neither QB got sacked because there was never TIME for them to be sacked. This is the giveaway you made no effort to actually understand this.
The offense was designed to be quick short passes. There was never time to be sacked. So when the QB got the ball it was out. There was no time to roll or drop back. It was get the ball and out. I literally explain this above. They hid his inability to sustain a block with this style of offense.
Ever notice how people never rag on Boling or Eifert? Because they are good. If you don't want him to get ragged on, write him a letter and ask him to play better football and people will stop.
Posts: 16,084
Threads: 251
Reputation:
183922
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio
Watch the 12th play down. I picked this play out myself before Redlegs used it here. Ogbuehi lets the DE go as he's most likely supposed to, Eifert comes around behind and lowers the boom on him.
Now watch what Og does ! He waddles out finds the LBer and just bounces around like please don't make me block you fellow. Let's not do this guy just keep your distance and I'll keep mine.
This isn't an example of bad technique or let's coach him up ! This is an example of not having the desire, heart, guts, killer instinct or whatever you want to call it.
This isn't something you can learn, it's either there or it's not. Either you're out there to crack heads or you need to go be a painter or something.
Posts: 3,742
Threads: 44
Reputation:
13919
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio, but with hookers and blackjack
(08-14-2017, 07:19 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Watch the 12th play down. I picked this play out myself before Redlegs used it here. Ogbuehi lets the DE go as he's most likely supposed to, Eifert comes around behind and lowers the boom on him.
Now watch what Og does ! He waddles out finds the LBer and just bounces around like please don't make me block you fellow. Let's not do this guy just keep your distance and I'll keep mine.
This isn't an example of bad technique or let's coach him up ! This is an example of not having the desire, heart, guts, killer instinct or whatever you want to call it.
This isn't something you can learn, it's either there or it's not. Either you're out there to crack heads or you need to go be a painter or something.
You can't make a cat a dog.
Being a good ol' junkyard brawler on the OL (or even DL) can get you a lot further than being overly passive.
Look at guys like Richie Incognito. He's never been overly skilled but he'd go out there and bang.
Bobbie Williams was the same way later on.
They might not be as athletic, but they'd sure as hell hit you hard enough to make the playing field more level.
Then you get guys like Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Willie Anderson, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Larry Allen...who did it all. Played with technique and brute brawler style.
And Christian Westerman showed this a bit this week as well. He was beaten off the snap but was able to fight his way back to a win on the block. Aggressive mean heavy hands.
Posts: 11,960
Threads: 103
Reputation:
81482
Joined: May 2015
(08-14-2017, 07:17 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He wasn't really better. That's the point.
And this is proof you didn't read or try to comprehend what I wrote.
He still has the same technique flaws he had last year. They have not gone away.
Neither QB got sacked because there was never TIME for them to be sacked. This is the giveaway you made no effort to actually understand this.
The offense was designed to be quick short passes. There was never time to be sacked. So when the QB got the ball it was out. There was no time to roll or drop back. It was get the ball and out. I literally explain this above. They hid his inability to sustain a block with this style of offense.
Ever notice how people never rag on Boling or Eifert? Because they are good. If you don't want him to get ragged on, write him a letter and ask him to play better football and people will stop.
Like hell they will.
If they find a way to scheme around him and it works, okay. We'll see what happens when the season starts. If he sinks the season, I'll admit I was wrong. If he doesn't, will you? You mind is made up that he suxx and he always will. I'm saying why not see what happens before deciding. So many people around here see the future. Must all be zillionaires from all the lottery winning. It's kind of obnoxious stating a prediction as a fact.
Posts: 16,084
Threads: 251
Reputation:
183922
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio
(08-14-2017, 07:23 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You can't make a cat a dog.
Being a good ol' junkyard brawler on the OL (or even DL) can get you a lot further than being overly passive.
Look at guys like Richie Incognito. He's never been overly skilled but he'd go out there and bang.
Bobbie Williams was the same way later on.
They might not be as athletic, but they'd sure as hell hit you hard enough to make the playing field more level.
Then you get guys like Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Willie Anderson, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Larry Allen...who did it all. Played with technique and brute brawler style.
And Christian Westerman showed this a bit this week as well. He was beaten off the snap but was able to fight his way back to a win on the block. Aggressive mean heavy hands.
Right,
Dave Lapham said himself oh about the 8th or 9th game last season. "When is Ogbuehi going to go back out and line up for a play, after getting beaten the previous play, and say you're not beating me on this play ! And get mean and nasty ? Words to that effect
Either the passion for the game is there, or it's not. You can't be an NFL LT and just go thru the motions.
Posts: 3,742
Threads: 44
Reputation:
13919
Joined: May 2015
Location: Ohio, but with hookers and blackjack
(08-14-2017, 07:35 PM)McC Wrote: Like hell they will.
If they find a way to scheme around him and it works, okay. We'll see what happens when the season starts. If he sinks the season, I'll admit I was wrong. If he doesn't, will you? You mind is made up that he suxx and he always will. I'm saying why not see what happens before deciding. So many people around here see the future. Must all be zillionaires from all the lottery winning. It's kind of obnoxious stating a prediction as a fact.
Well it seems like your question was rhetorical because you decided my answer already. Anyone else see the irony here?
What prediction am I stating as fact?
About if he was good people will stop?
People ragged on Boling early too. Then he started playing better football.
And they stopped.
If he becomes a serviceable LT who doesn't require the offense to cater to him, I will say I was wrong. But if we spend all year doing this dink and dunk thing to hide him and he's still showing these problems I won't be wrong even if the offense finds some success, because he's still hindering the offense.
|
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
