How and Why.

[Whatever]

(08-21-2017, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As I seem to remember, with the impending "weak crop" of LT candidates expected in this past draft, not only was the LT class in the NFL free agency season lean on LTs in number, but made their prices rather high.

But yes, I do seem to remember some viable options being available after Whit elected to sign with LA.  Maybe not the caliber of player we're used to at LT, but at least some proven, known commodities, capable of starting.

Best available free agents (current)

Actually, I see a few players that could improve this team.

Ryan Clady
Dwight Freeney
Jared Odrick
Devin Taylor 
Jairus Byrd (with the recent injury to Williams)

FWIW Clady has retired and Taylor signed with the Giants awhile back.  

[SunsetBengal]

(08-21-2017, 08:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: FWIW Clady has retired and Taylor signed with the Giants awhile back.  

My bad, I thought that was a current list.

[Hammerstripes]

I guess if you are looking at this year in a vacuum, then you are right, however,

Ced and Fisher haven't even started for a full year. I get the short term results aren't great, but it's stupid to give up on a 1st and 2nd round pick without even letting them play a full season.

We do have young guys at OG. Redmond and Westerman were drafted last year. It's not like there aren't guys waiting in the wings. Hopkins has always played well, just has never stayed healthy and was NEVER going to jump in front of Z.

As for the D-line, they added guys this year and have always had some younger guys like Williams, Clarke and Hardison in the wings.

AS for what we needed last year, I would have also put offensive play makers up at the top along with linemen since we were so inept when AJ was out.

[BenZoo2]

(08-21-2017, 05:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's a little different when it's a vet like Maualuga and the like vs a Reggie Nelson.  You think Rey will be missed?  I don't.

I can get on board with the rest of the post, but no one picked up 58 until two days ago.  I don't keep up with Miami, but I wonder if they had an injury at the LB position.  Nelson, on the other hand, was coming off a career year, and had another solid season in Oaktown.

Miami did have an injury, to Raekwon McMillan. He was going to start for them this year.

When it comes to Nelson that could have been a case of jettisoning a player one early rather than holding on too late.  Look at the players New England has let go.  Richard Seymour, chandler jones and Jamie Collins, to name a few.  We as Bengal fans want us to emulate them but we would have lost our collective minds if the bengals let those guys go.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-22-2017, 12:51 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Miami did have an injury, to Raekwon McMillan. He was going to start for them this year.

When it comes to Nelson that could have been a case of jettisoning a player one early rather than holding on too late.  Look at the players New England has let go.  Richard Seymour, chandler jones and Jamie Collins, to name a few.  We as Bengal fans want us to emulate them but we would have lost our collective minds if the bengals let those guys go.  

I figured as much.

As for the rest, I get that.  However, Nelson is still playing at a moderately high level, and was really the QB on the back end of the defense.  That REALLY showed last season.  I had little faith in Williams, and while he looked better as the year went on, I still have doubts there.  Also, we claim to value "veteran presence", and "locker room leaders", but we let those very things go. They sure didn't mind holding onto guys like Peko, Crocker, Maualuga, etc too long. I guess if you're cheap enough, they'll keep you around, but if you ball out and want a little coin......GTFO.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-21-2017, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As I seem to remember, with the impending "weak crop" of LT candidates expected in this past draft, not only was the LT class in the NFL free agency season lean on LTs in number, but made their prices rather high.

But yes, I do seem to remember some viable options being available after Whit elected to sign with LA.  Maybe not the caliber of player we're used to at LT, but at least some proven, known commodities, capable of starting.

Best available free agents (current)

Actually, I see a few players that could improve this team.

Ryan Clady
Dwight Freeney
Jared Odrick
Devin Taylor 
Jairus Byrd (with the recent injury to Williams)

I actually did more research into JC Tretter the past day and I really wish the Bengals would have picked him up before the Browns did.

JC Tretter was a very good replacement last year at C when Corey Linsley went down to injury. Tretter ended up ranking as the #9 C on PFF (81.4), and just behind him was Linsley at #10 (80.0). Not only did Tretter prove to be a good C, but he also played well at LT for the Packers in the 2015 playoffs when Bakhtiari got hurt.
Tretter was a 4th rounder in 2013 that played LT at Cornell but projected inside for the NFL. However, what he has shown is he could be a quality player across the line.
Tretter was listed in the top 25 breakout candidates by Football Outsiders on ESPN back in the 2016 offseason.

Tretter would have been quite a nice pickup to (at minimum) back up multiple weak spots on the Bengals OL while likely emerging as a quality starter somewhere if/when one of the OL starters other than Boling struggles this season.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-22-2017, 10:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I actually did more research into JC Tretter the past day and I really wish the Bengals would have picked him up before the Browns did.

JC Tretter was a very good replacement last year at C when Corey Linsley went down to injury. Tretter ended up ranking as the #9 C on PFF (81.4), and just behind him was Linsley at #10 (80.0). Not only did Tretter prove to be a good C, but he also played well at LT for the Packers in the 2015 playoffs when Bakhtiari got hurt.
Tretter was a 4th rounder in 2013 that played LT at Cornell but projected inside for the NFL. However, what he has shown is he could be a quality player across the line.
Tretter was listed in the top 25 breakout candidates by Football Outsiders on ESPN back in the 2016 offseason.

Tretter would have been quite a nice pickup to (at minimum) back up multiple weak spots on the Bengals OL while likely emerging as a quality starter somewhere if/when one of the OL starters other than Boling struggles this season.

I was kind of thinking that last night, as I watched Tretter and Zeitler getting good push for Deshone Kizer to sneak a TD.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-22-2017, 12:51 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: When it comes to Nelson that could have been a case of jettisoning a player one early rather than holding on too late.  Look at the players New England has let go.  Richard Seymour, chandler jones and Jamie Collins, to name a few.  We as Bengal fans want us to emulate them but we would have lost our collective minds if the bengals let those guys go.  

It's hard to say. The Patriots also like veterans like Law, Seau, Revis, etc.

Some of those guys were let go because of salary. They made Collins a big contract offer and he wouldn't accept it, so they traded him.

The Patriots also have a proven track record of replacing guys. The Bengals...not so much.

Plus, the Bengals TRIED to retain Whitworth. They wanted to retain him. He left. It wasn't some grand strategy to let him go and start Ced. They wanted Whitworth back.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2017, 01:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say. The Patriots also like veterans like Law, Seau, Revis, etc.

Some of those guys were let go because of salary. They made Collins a big contract offer and he wouldn't accept it, so they traded him.

The Patriots also have a proven track record of replacing guys. The Bengals...not so much.

Plus, the Bengals TRIED to retain Whitworth. They wanted to retain him. He left. It wasn't some grand strategy to let him go and start Ced. They wanted Whitworth back.

To be fair though, the Bengals had two years to properly groom Cedric Ogbuehi while Whitworth was still here. The fact that he doesn't seem ready to fill Whit's shoes by his third year is on the coaches. Granted, yes, he was injured for parts of his first two seasons, but his development is still behind all the same.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-22-2017, 01:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To be fair though, the Bengals had two years to properly groom Cedric Ogbuehi while Whitworth was still here. The fact that he doesn't seem ready to fill Whit's shoes by his third year is on the coaches. Granted, yes, he was injured for parts of his first two seasons, but his development is still behind all the same.

Agreed. But, I saw an NFL executive talking about the draft. Only about 50% of 1st Round picks become starters. 50%!

The Bengals draft guys to replace veterans that leave and don't rely heavily on free agency. That 50% hit rate REALLY is a kink in that strategy!

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2017, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Agreed. But, I saw an NFL executive talking about the draft. Only about 50% of 1st Round picks become starters. 50%!

The Bengals draft guys to replace veterans that leave and don't rely heavily on free agency. That 50% hit rate REALLY is a kink in that strategy!

Bingo. If your team values the draft so much, better make sure you hit on more than 50% of your early round picks or you won't go very far...oh wait.

[THE PISTONS]

(08-22-2017, 01:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bingo. If your team values the draft so much, better make sure you hit on more than 50% of your early round picks or you won't go very far...oh wait.

We have possibly the smallest scouting department in the NFL. That isn't necessarily a recipe for success.

[McC]

(08-22-2017, 09:53 AM)Wyche Wrote: I figured as much.

As for the rest, I get that.  However, Nelson is still playing at a moderately high level, and was really the QB on the back end of the defense.  That REALLY showed last season.  I had little faith in Williams, and while he looked better as the year went on, I still have doubts there.  Also, we claim to value "veteran presence", and "locker room leaders", but we let those very things go. They sure didn't mind holding onto guys like Peko, Crocker, Maualuga, etc too long. I guess if you're cheap enough, they'll keep you around, but if you ball out and want a little coin......GTFO.

Thing about Reggie was how he always had a big ol' footprint on every Steeler game.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-22-2017, 03:05 PM)McC Wrote: Thing about Reggie was how he always had a big ol' footprint on every Steeler game.

No doubt man, he was the Steeler killer.  If for no other reason, I'd have kept him around just for that!

[BenZoo2]

(08-22-2017, 09:53 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I figured as much.

As for the rest, I get that.  However, Nelson is still playing at a moderately high level, and was really the QB on the back end of the defense.  That REALLY showed last season.  I had little faith in Williams, and while he looked better as the year went on, I still have doubts there.  Also, we claim to value "veteran presence", and "locker room leaders", but we let those very things go. They sure didn't mind holding onto guys like Peko, Crocker, Maualuga, etc too long. I guess if you're cheap enough, they'll keep you around, but if you ball out and want a little coin......GTFO.

Well there is definitely truth in that. They made the decision to go with Williams and Iloka and that was that. I guess they thought Reggie would have declined a bit more and that Williams was ready. I don't think they wanted to commit to him long term.

(08-22-2017, 01:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say. The Patriots also like veterans like Law, Seau, Revis, etc.

Some of those guys were let go because of salary. They made Collins a big contract offer and he wouldn't accept it, so they traded him.

The Patriots also have a proven track record of replacing guys. The Bengals...not so much.

Plus, the Bengals TRIED to retain Whitworth. They wanted to retain him. He left. It wasn't some grand strategy to let him go and start Ced. They wanted Whitworth back.

The patriots do value those guys but won't break the bank to keep them. That's why they trade them or move on from them once they know signing them will be an issue. I'm just saying we would lose our stuffing if the bengals do that.

[phil413]

Though this horse carcass is down to bare bones, I have to agree with the OL rant. Even if you "think" someone will replace the top 2 FA's at their position when the unit was poor, it's still terrible planning. Those two young tackles could become stars and who is there in case of an injury?

Regardless of the weak draft there is FA and trades. If the season is lost again...they dont even have the luxury of an extra OL quality prospect if these guys fail. For the good of the team Fisher should be made a great 6th man and Ogbuehi replacement if need be. They were one Fringe OL short roster wise. The remaining hole of a contingency plan would be either a trade (say Boyd or a mid Rd pick for a teams quality backup) or the waiver wire. c

[muskiesfan]

What I want to know, is where are the Alexander the Great apologists right now. They always thumped their chest on how "Alexander has never failed on a first round pick". Evidently it's okay he fails in and on damn near everything else, but not first rounders. Well, it's looking like that streak is coming to an end. Even if Ced becomes an average LT, that's not what you're hoping for out of a 1st round pick.

[sandwedge]

(08-25-2017, 10:07 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: What I want to know, is where are the Alexander the Great apologists right now. They always thumped their chest on how "Alexander has never failed on a first round pick". Evidently it's okay he fails in and on damn near everything else, but not first rounders. Well, it's looking like that streak is coming to an end. Even if Ced becomes an average LT, that's not what you're hoping for out of a 1st round pick.

Before you go puffing your chest out, lets see how this plays out first.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-21-2017, 06:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As I seem to remember, with the impending "weak crop" of LT candidates expected in this past draft, not only was the LT class in the NFL free agency season lean on LTs in number, but made their prices rather high.

But yes, I do seem to remember some viable options being available after Whit elected to sign with LA.  Maybe not the caliber of player we're used to at LT, but at least some proven, known commodities, capable of starting.

Best available free agents (current)

Actually, I see a few players that could improve this team.

Ryan Clady
Dwight Freeney
Jared Odrick
Devin Taylor 
Jairus Byrd (with the recent injury to Williams)

Have people forgotten that massive post I had on the mothership, concerning Clady? It went like 3 pages long or whatever lol.

Anyways, the man never posted less than 30 pressures in a season and was a competent, but average, run blocker.

It took Whitworth 2, sometimes 3 seasons to equal Clady's pressures for one season. Now, I know we were spoiled with arguably the best pass blocking LT since 2009, but I'm willing to roll with Ogbuehi than go for someone who was never that good to begin with (just pure and utter hype), who has been injured significantly, as of late.

And no, I don't hate Clady, but it left me a bit pissed and bitter for a couple of seasons, that he went to the PB and was AP, when he shouldn't have even sniffed an alternate PB selection and Whitworth was left off of all lists and wasn't considered for anything.

[sandwedge]

I find it bizarre people want us to go throw money at very aged vets that really aren't any better than our aged vets like Winston or Smith to upgrade our line. Yet we complain about players past their "productive" years hanging around because we are to loyal... Make sense??