Your Opinions Of Willis and Smith

[3wt]

(08-25-2017, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why do you think that was the case?  It wasn't because of the defense, gave up less than 20 pts/game.  The problem was the offense didn't score nearly enough.  I blame the OC and Marvin Lewis for not calling games aggressively enough.

And I get the sense that Lewis has also squelched Guenther's approach to coordinating his defense.  Last night I was watching the Cleveland game.   The announcer mentioned William's penchant for never taking the foot off the gas as a DC and never going into a prevent defense.

My mouth watered.   I can't remember the time that the prevent defense ever panned out well for us.  I also don't like the "contain the offense and stiffen in the red zone" defense.  I mean there is a wisdom to it ultimately, and I understand not giving up the big play.  But that approach encourages the offense, discourages the defense and gives the edge of time of possession to the other team.  

Cleveland's defense played well last night.  They fly to the ball, gang tackle and tackle well.  I'd like to see  more of that.

We'll never know how much of Guenther's philosophy is his or Lewis'.  But I get the sense that Lewis keeps Guenther pretty contained.

[BengalChris]

(08-26-2017, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, nearly impossible.

You are probably correct to an extent. I don't expect it to be quite as bad as you say here Chris but you have some history
on your side especially draft position. Why was Og put in the fire last year ahead of the clearly better Fisher?

Draft position. Willis was a 3rd round pick though and is clearly the best all around DE on the team besides Dunlap, he will
get his snaps. They did TRADE for Chris Smith and he has been the best pass rusher this Preseason. They also are starting
Lawson at SAM a lot of the time.

But this is also all Defense and maybe MB is giving Guenther more say cause he is the next HC...

I was clearly over stating the case, as you pointed out, and I know that.

But I'm tired of Marv's policies on player selection and who starts. Og is clearly a project and the efforts to start him anyways last year cost the team dearly. Has he improved? We'll have to wait and see, but Mike Brown made sure that the team was going to start Og no matter what this year.

I hope the defense plays some of its young guys this year. Willy Jackson is a guy I want to see on the field.

Going back to Dennard's rookie training camp Marvin Lewis said Dennard was the best rookie CB he'd ever seen. Yet, wow, he's done nothing.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2017, 05:11 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I was clearly over stating the case, as you pointed out, and I know that.

But I'm tired of Marv's policies on player selection and who starts. Og is clearly a project and the efforts to start him anyways last year cost the team dearly. Has he improved? We'll have to wait and see, but Mike Brown made sure that the team was going to start Og no matter what this year.

I hope the defense plays some of its young guys this year. Willy Jackson is a guy I want to see on the field.

Going back to Dennard's rookie training camp Marvin Lewis said Dennard was the best rookie CB he'd ever seen. Yet, wow, he's done nothing.

I think Paulie will give these young guys tons of snaps after this Preseason. Willis, Lawson and Chris Smith have been great
and everyone can see it and Paulie, unlike Marv, likes to play the best players regardless of draft position.

[Sled21]

(08-24-2017, 09:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Clarke had 4 sacks last year. That's 4-times as many as Smith. So why should Smith be on the field?

Smith also played for the Jaguars, so it's not like they were in the lead and the other teams were forced to pass.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-25-2017, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why do you think that was the case?  It wasn't because of the defense, gave up less than 20 pts/game.  The problem was the offense didn't score nearly enough.  I blame the OC and Marvin Lewis for not calling games aggressively enough.

To be fair, Piano Man didn't give them much to work with up front last season either......

[SunsetBengal]

(08-29-2017, 09:34 AM)Wyche Wrote: To be fair, Piano Man didn't give them much to work with up front last season either......

True, but some of those issues can be mitigated by creative play calling.  For example, running a few sprint out passes, flooding one side of the field can lay the groundwork for misdirection and backside plays later.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-29-2017, 10:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True, but some of those issues can be mitigated by creative play calling.  For example, running a few sprint out passes, flooding one side of the field can lay the groundwork for misdirection and backside plays later.

Fair point....I'm just undecided on Zamp, and it was his first year calling plays as well.  Hopefully he learned some wrinkles from last year's film.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

As for the OP, I like what I have seen from both of these guys.  We need some fresh legs at DE for the rotation.  I'd like to see both make it.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-29-2017, 10:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: Fair point....I'm just undecided on Zamp, and it was his first year calling plays as well.  Hopefully he learned some wrinkles from last year's film.

Even on Sunday, while the offense looked better than it had in the previous two outings, after the first "scripted" drive, they became painfully predictable again.  If it weren't for the momentum boost from the Burfict pick 6, that game would likely have been an ass whooping, save for that first drive.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2017, 01:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Even on Sunday, while the offense looked better than it had in the previous two outings, after the first "scripted" drive, they became painfully predictable again.  If it weren't for the momentum boost from the Burfict pick 6, that game would likely have been an ass whooping, save for that first drive.

Zampese gives me Bratkowski vibes in that it's very predictable, whereas for Gruden and Hue it felt like they were always trying to get too cute to catch the defenses off-guard.
Both were/are frustrating.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2017, 01:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Even on Sunday, while the offense looked better than it had in the previous two outings, after the first "scripted" drive, they became painfully predictable again.  If it weren't for the momentum boost from the Burfict pick 6, that game would likely have been an ass whooping, save for that first drive.

Sure hope this was Zamp just calling it vanilla but you are right about the playcalling.

Painfully predictable is what i thought too.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-29-2017, 06:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure hope this was Zamp just calling it vanilla but you are right about the playcalling.

Painfully predictable is what i thought too.

Aggravating is what it is.  Gruden and Jackson were creative.  They designed plays to emphasize the strength of the players and the talents they had, rather than just having players conform to a "canned" offensive system.

I'm not saying that Zampese doesn't have those creative plays in his book, but his routine of calling plays gets really predictable.  

[sandwedge]

I'm pretty sure we went vanilla after the scoring drive.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2017, 07:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Aggravating is what it is.  Gruden and Jackson were creative.  They designed plays to emphasize the strength of the players and the talents they had, rather than just having players conform to a "canned" offensive system.

I'm not saying that Zampese doesn't have those creative plays in his book, but his routine of calling plays gets really predictable.  

It was last year too, but i am with Wyche in giving Zamp a chance as it was only his first year as OC and this is Preseason.

(08-29-2017, 07:59 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I'm pretty sure we went vanilla after the scoring drive.

Hope this is the case and we see a lot more changing it up come opening day.

No point in gambling in Preseason anyways. The problem is the lack of aggressiveness in the regular season last year as
Sunset here points out. We took a knee everytime we had a lead last year with some time on the clock.

Watch the Packers. They don't care if there is 16 seconds left on the clock going into halftime they will take a shot.

The only game we didn't do this was the Browns game when Dalton made a great throw and AJ made and even better
juggling catch. It was awesome too, loved it. But it was against the Browns. The biggest problem i have at times has to
be Marv. He treats some teams different. We need to treat every team like they are the Browns.

Need to crush the Steelers and Pats just the same. I truly believe we have the players to do it.

The coaching? Hell no, especially Marv and PA.