Bengals kicker battle update: Practice Yesterday- "Elliot still struggling..."

[TKUHL]

(08-27-2017, 10:28 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I'm not saying he didn't win the meaningless preseason. I'm saying we're screwed because of it.  

We very well may be. He may turn back into his past as soon as the season starts. I just think the mistake was picking the guy to begin with. I know it's pre season but if you asked anyone towards the end of the season that we would have a kicker be perfect in the pre season making multiple 50+ yard FG's I don't think everyone would be happy about it and not care who the kicker is. You have a valid reason to be skeptical because of his track record, but he's looking pretty good now. I don't think pre season is all that much different for a kicker. Less pressure, maybe but he had to be under a lot of pressure kicking for a job here too.

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2017, 08:32 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You might get what you want but you're gonna be eating crow when Bullock lets us down in the regular season.

Even if that happens you can't blame the Bengals for picking the kicker who is better at kicking.  Bullock is outperforming Elliot right now, and if we pick the guy who is doing better at his job and it turns out we were wrong, so be it.  

The Bucs took the boring old journeyman Nick Folk over Roberto Agyuo...the young guy who keeps missing kicks but shouldn't be missing kicks.  Agyuo is now in Chicago missing kicks and losing a kicker battle to another ho-hum retread vet kicker in Connor Barth.  What can you do?  It's hard to just sit there and hope hope hope someone is going to magically change.  It's fear of missing out (also known as FOMO) and it's why teams over-draft players who MIGHT be good, it's why kids dont' want the last popsicle until their sibling reaches for it, and it's why women always go for the jerk who is unemployed but in a band and TOTALLY MIGHT get famous someday over the guy who holds down a normal job and makes a decent wage.

There is a chance Elliot goes to another team and lights it up, yes.  There is a chance Fat Randy Bullock goes to a team and lights it up, too.  Believe it or not.  The only reason to let Elliot sink this team while he "works it out" would be if we had no chance of competing and could afford to throw an entire roster down the drain for the sake of hoping a snakebitten kicker becomes great.  Ehh, my job isn't on the line, so I'd be all for that.  I'm crazy though.

[BonnieBengal]

(08-27-2017, 10:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Even if that happens you can't blame the Bengals for picking the kicker who is better at kicking.  Bullock is outperforming Elliot right now, and if we pick the guy who is doing better at his job and it turns out we were wrong, so be it.  

The Bucs took the boring old journeyman Nick Folk over Roberto Agyuo...the young guy who keeps missing kicks but shouldn't be missing kicks.  Agyuo is now in Chicago missing kicks and losing a kicker battle to another ho-hum retread vet kicker in Connor Barth.  What can you do?  It's hard to just sit there and hope hope hope someone is going to magically change.  It's fear of missing out (also known as FOMO) and it's why teams over-draft players who MIGHT be good, it's why kids dont' want the last popsicle until their sibling reaches for it, and it's why women always go for the jerk who is unemployed but in a band and TOTALLY MIGHT get famous someday over the guy who holds down a normal job and makes a decent wage.

There is a chance Elliot goes to another team and lights it up, yes.  There is a chance Fat Randy Bullock goes to a team and lights it up, too.  Believe it or not.  The only reason to let Elliot sink this team while he "works it out" would be if we had no chance of competing and could afford to throw an entire roster down the drain for the sake of hoping a snakebitten kicker becomes great.  Ehh, my job isn't on the line, so I'd be all for that.  I'm crazy though.

That's fair.  I just see it as the Bengals making the wrong choice again.  And you know that if I'm wrong I'll eat crow.  I have no problem doing that.  

[Pat5775]

(08-27-2017, 10:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: That's fair.  I just see it as the Bengals making the wrong choice again.  And you know that if I'm wrong I'll eat crow.  I have no problem doing that.  

But in this case, the "wrong" choice has consistently outperformed the other choice. Nobody should really fault the team for going with the more obvious player.

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2017, 10:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: That's fair.  I just see it as the Bengals making the wrong choice again.  And you know that if I'm wrong I'll eat crow.  I have no problem doing that.  

I could see that too, but if that happens you can't hang your head.  People can't see the future; even those who have the job of projecting and predicting player talent (and we are worse at that than others).  We could let Elliot work out his kinks and sink our season and see him go to the Steelers or Patriots or something.

The "what if" game always wins.  As I said, I like the Bears and Bengals and have since I was a kid.  If they go with Aguyo and Elliot I'd be more interested than going with Barth and Bullock.  However, I'm glad my own job isn't linked to their performance.  If I lost my job if they stunk I'd probably go with the boring vets.


Er, then again Mike and Marvin aren't losing their jobs regardless.  Hey, let's go with Elliot!  Shut my mouth!

[THE PISTONS]

I mean, they have one kicker who makes kicks in practice and the games...he played well with the Steelers and Bengals last year.

You have another kicker who was good in college, but isn't doing as good in practice or the games.

It's kind of hard to think the right choice is the guy who is not performing well in practice or the games. Elliott could turn into a good NFL kicker...but it would be tough to justify keeping him.

He just looks like a bad draft pick at this point in time for us.

[Luvnit2]

(08-27-2017, 10:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Even if that happens you can't blame the Bengals for picking the kicker who is better at kicking.  Bullock is outperforming Elliot right now, and if we pick the guy who is doing better at his job and it turns out we were wrong, so be it.  

The Bucs took the boring old journeyman Nick Folk over Roberto Agyuo...the young guy who keeps missing kicks but shouldn't be missing kicks.  Agyuo is now in Chicago missing kicks and losing a kicker battle to another ho-hum retread vet kicker in Connor Barth.  What can you do?  It's hard to just sit there and hope hope hope someone is going to magically change.  It's fear of missing out (also known as FOMO) and it's why teams over-draft players who MIGHT be good, it's why kids dont' want the last popsicle until their sibling reaches for it, and it's why women always go for the jerk who is unemployed but in a band and TOTALLY MIGHT get famous someday over the guy who holds down a normal job and makes a decent wage.

There is a chance Elliot goes to another team and lights it up, yes.  There is a chance Fat Randy Bullock goes to a team and lights it up, too.  Believe it or not.  The only reason to let Elliot sink this team while he "works it out" would be if we had no chance of competing and could afford to throw an entire roster down the drain for the sake of hoping a snakebitten kicker becomes great.  Ehh, my job isn't on the line, so I'd be all for that.  I'm crazy though.

Bucs kicker was given an entire year to fix his issues, Elliott would be given weeks so not sure that is a fair comparison.

[The Real Deal]

I think the kid may have lost his job with the Cincinnati Bengals tonight. It's a shame unto cut a 5th round draft pick so fast but if bullock is the better man, so be it. That's what competition is all about.

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2017, 10:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I mean, they have one kicker who makes kicks in practice and the games...he played well with the Steelers and Bengals last year.

You have another kicker who was good in college, but isn't doing as good in practice or the games.

It's kind of hard to think the right choice is the guy who is not performing well in practice or the games. Elliott could turn into a good NFL kicker...but it would be tough to justify keeping him.

He just looks like a bad draft pick at this point in time for us.

Yeah, what would you even say if they went with Elliot?  Why even have Bullock?  Elliot has been way below expectations, so if we keep him it's based on what he might do...which didn't even require a competition in the first place.

(08-27-2017, 10:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bucs kicker was given an entire year to fix his issues, Elliott would be given weeks so not sure that is a fair comparison.

It's not exact, but I'm just saying how a guy with "potential" can never realize it.  At what point do you give up?  Victory can always be "over the next hill" can't it?

[THE PISTONS]

(08-27-2017, 10:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, what would you even say if they went with Elliot?  Why even have Bullock?  Elliot has been way below expectations, so if we keep him it's based on what he might do...which didn't even require a competition in the first place.

Yep. Ultimately you take the guy who can help you win games RIGHT NOW. Not 2, 3, 4 years from now.

We could draft another kicker next year if we had to in the late rounds. Not ideal...but we have a ton of draft picks every year form the comp picks.

The irony is they didn't take Gonzales because of the OCD and worrying about his mental makeup...so they took Elliott who is losing a kicking competition. It seems to be mental with Elliott as physically he was a good kicker in college.

[Luvnit2]

(08-27-2017, 10:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. Ultimately you take the guy who can help you win games RIGHT NOW. Not 2, 3, 4 years from now.

We could draft another kicker next year if we had to in the late rounds. Not ideal...but we have a ton of draft picks every year form the comp picks.

The irony is they didn't take Gonzales because of the OCD and worrying about his mental makeup...so they took Elliott who is losing a kicking competition. It seems to be mental with Elliott as physically he was a good kicker in college.

Elliott is not losing it, Bullock is winning it. They are and both will be on an NFL roster in 2017

[corpjet]

give Fat Randy the keys to the kicking Cadillac, we tried a young kid it didn't work out, so be it

[TKUHL]

So....Can we all agree the Bengals will be the Bengals and cut Bullock then? :)

[McC]

(08-27-2017, 10:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Even if that happens you can't blame the Bengals for picking the kicker who is better at kicking.  Bullock is outperforming Elliot right now, and if we pick the guy who is doing better at his job and it turns out we were wrong, so be it.  

The Bucs took the boring old journeyman Nick Folk over Roberto Agyuo...the young guy who keeps missing kicks but shouldn't be missing kicks.  Agyuo is now in Chicago missing kicks and losing a kicker battle to another ho-hum retread vet kicker in Connor Barth.  What can you do?  It's hard to just sit there and hope hope hope someone is going to magically change.  It's fear of missing out (also known as FOMO) and it's why teams over-draft players who MIGHT be good, it's why kids dont' want the last popsicle until their sibling reaches for it, and it's why women always go for the jerk who is unemployed but in a band and TOTALLY MIGHT get famous someday over the guy who holds down a normal job and makes a decent wage.

There is a chance Elliot goes to another team and lights it up, yes.  There is a chance Fat Randy Bullock goes to a team and lights it up, too.  Believe it or not.  The only reason to let Elliot sink this team while he "works it out" would be if we had no chance of competing and could afford to throw an entire roster down the drain for the sake of hoping a snakebitten kicker becomes great.  Ehh, my job isn't on the line, so I'd be all for that.  I'm crazy though.

Snake bitten?  One miss and a guy is snake bitten?

[Essex Johnson]

(08-27-2017, 11:18 PM)TKUHL Wrote: So....Can we all agree the Bengals will be the Bengals and cut Bullock then? :)

Couple points why Elliot could make it.. and to be honest your comment is pretty hallow Bullock has something on paper.. he has been cut i believe by 2 teams already, missed a field goal to win the game late last year.. does not have a great kicking avg. on paper.. Elliot is young with more upside in long run most likely and he missed one kick so far in preseason and been solid on kickoffs... 

I am leaning to Bullock but Elliot has not rolled over.. if he had, they would have already made a decision... 

How about praising the Bengals for having competition.. it might have made both players better....

[Shake n Blake]

(08-27-2017, 11:18 PM)TKUHL Wrote: So....Can we all agree the Bengals will be the Bengals and cut Bullock then? :)

I could easily see Marv having to talk Mike out of keeping the draft pick.

You know how much Mike values the cheap rookie contracts. If Bullock plays well, he'll be looking at a solid vet contract.

[TKUHL]

(08-27-2017, 11:33 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Couple points why Elliot could make it.. and to be honest your comment is pretty hallow Bullock has something on paper.. he has been cut i believe by 2 teams already, missed a field goal to win the game late last year.. does not have a great kicking avg. on paper.. Elliot is young with more upside in long run most likely and he missed one kick so far in preseason and been solid on kickoffs... 

I am leaning to Bullock but Elliot has not rolled over.. if he had, they would have already made a decision... 

How about praising the Bengals for having competition.. it might have made both players better....

It was a joke. lol I don't give a shit who wins the kicking job. It's a risk either way. A rookie who may have upside thats only missed one kick with. no real games experience or a guy with a track record of getting cut but is making all his kicks. If you look at my previous post you would see that I did say at least we had fair competition, since people always say Mikes too loyal and starts vets over players who out perform. That we should practice what we preach and say Bullock seems to be the winner in a fair competition.

[CageTheBengal]

(08-27-2017, 11:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I could easily see Marv having to talk Mike out of keeping the draft pick.

You know how much Mike values the cheap rookie contracts. If Bullock plays well, he'll be looking at a solid vet contract.

I mean he stuck with Nugent and Graham time and time again on solid vet contracts instead of going for the cheap rookie contract.

We even franchised Graham at one point. 

[BoBengal]

I'm thinking Elliot's (3) missed kicks in the last two games of the preseason, which dropped his Game FG% down to 57% likely sealed his fate.

Was the dome open at the end of the game?  Is there a way for us to look it up?

[Shake n Blake]

(08-28-2017, 11:33 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I mean he stuck with Nugent and Graham time and time again on solid vet contracts instead of going for the cheap rookie contract.

We even franchised Graham at one point. 

And look what that got him. A guy that missed 2 kicks in a playoff game and a guy that completely fell apart in a regular season.

I just think if he's choosing between a 5th round pick or a veteran, he's more likely to take the pick unless that pick is a complete disaster.