Compensatory Picks

[Shake n Blake]

(09-06-2017, 12:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I've never understood how some people stick their head in the sand on reality and argue on here how every move the Bengals make is a great move.

When you don't win a playoff game in 26+ years...you have problems.

And IF the Bengals had such a great management model...and the coach was the issue...management is responsible for said coach. So the model is broken there too.

They act like Marvin just keeps coaching here even though the Bengals fire him. Clearly management likes him because he can co-exist under their structure and doesn't ask for too much power. Which is a problem in itself.

It's not like we're being unfair or making things up.

1991-2002 showed Mike Brown's ineptitude and cheapness. We know what he's capable of on his own, and he still has some influence.

Since then, things have been better under Marv, but you can't help but feel we've underachieved. We've had 2 excellent core groups of players. You'd think we should've had a deep run or 3 during that span. You'd think Marv's record wouldn't be barely hovering over .500. Now whether or not Marv is what's held us back or the ultra-conservative approach to free agency (being kind here) is up for debate, but there's little doubt we've disappointed. You won't find many outside of a select few on here that won't admit that. 

Outside of this board, it's accepted fact that Mike Brown is an abysmal owner, Marvin Lewis is a choker and both core groups underachieved. 

[THE PISTONS]

Exactly. Fans hang their hat on the fact that we made the playoffs x years in a row and lost because of coaching.

As if coaching isn't a variable controlled by management!

23 different teams have played in a Super Bowl since we last won a playoff game! 23!

We've underachieved.

[THE PISTONS]

This is akin to a stock message board with an Enron thread and people posting about how great of a company it is because the stock value went up 5 out of the past 7 years.

Our core guys are aging. Atkins, Green, Dalton, and Dunlap are all around 30. We haven't had that great draft in years to replenish the tank.

Guys like Whitworth, Nelson, Zeitler, Sanu, Hall, and Jones are gone already. The talent exodus is happening.

[THE PISTONS]

23 teams make it to the Super Bowl since we last WIN a playoff game...and we make the playoffs 3 years in a row and lose and the team website is wrigint PR articles about how we are now the model that other NFL franchises follow.

And to this day, some fans believe that.

The Steelers and Packers have used this model well before us and actually win Super Bowls...yet people think other teams desire to mimic us.

As if the key to success is rationing Gatorade and deodorant!

[*ochocincos*]

(09-05-2017, 01:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Over the past 2 years we've lost Whitworth, Zeitler, Peko, Nelson, Sanu, Jones, and Leon Hall. They also lost guys like Burkhead.

Zeitler, Whitworth, and Nelson were replaced with lesser players. It remains to be seen on Peko.

If there is any saving grace, it's that the Bengals at least had a plan for losing (most of) those players...it just hasn't worked out well so far.
Williams was to replace Nelson.
Ogbuehi and Fisher were to replace Whitworth and Smith.
LaFell and Boyd were to replace Jones and Sanu.
Ross is to replace LaFell in 1-2 years.
Mixon was to replace Burkhead (and eventually Hill).
Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and WJ3 were to (eventually) replace Newman, Hall, and Adam Jones.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2017, 01:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If there is any saving grace, it's that the Bengals at least had a plan for losing (most of) those players...it just hasn't worked out well so far.
Williams was to replace Nelson.
Ogbuehi and Fisher were to replace Whitworth and Smith.
LaFell and Boyd were to replace Jones and Sanu.
Ross is to replace LaFell in 1-2 years.
Mixon was to replace Burkhead (and eventually Hill).
Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and WJ3 were to (eventually) replace Newman, Hall, and Adam Jones.

Agree. But drafting to replace guys you're going to lose in 1-2-3 years when you have $18.6 million in cap space and the cap rises by about $10 million a year is running on a treadmill.

Best case, you stay the same and get younger. Worst case, you decline severely at several positions.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-06-2017, 01:30 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Agree. But drafting to replace guys you're going to lose in 1-2-3 years when you have $18.6 million in cap space and the cap rises by about $10 million a year is running on a treadmill.

Best case, you stay the same and get younger. Worst case, you decline severely at several positions.

EDIT - I'll follow this up to a comment I made earlier...the Bengals (seem to) think they have (had) a good enough roster to contend without addressing (obvious?) immediate needs. This is why they draft for the future so much. They care so much about a few years down the road that they don't notice the road blocks right in front of them. It doesn't help that they didn't address these immediate needs sufficiently/properly in FA for years.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-06-2017, 01:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's not like we're being unfair or making things up.

1991-2002 showed Mike Brown's ineptitude and cheapness. We know what he's capable of on his own, and he still has some influence.

Since then, things have been better under Marv, but you can't help but feel we've underachieved. We've had 2 excellent core groups of players. You'd think we should've had a deep run or 3 during that span. You'd think Marv's record wouldn't be barely hovering over .500. Now whether or not Marv is what's held us back or the ultra-conservative approach to free agency (being kind here) is up for debate, but there's little doubt we've disappointed. You won't find many outside of a select few on here that won't admit that. 

Outside of this board, it's accepted fact that Mike Brown is an abysmal owner, Marvin Lewis is a choker and both core groups underachieved. 

Hey! Stop your whining! Asking for a team to try harder to get one, single, solitary playoff win in the last 26 years (something EVERY SINGLE NFL TEAM HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO IN THAT TIME--AND MORE) is just too much to ask for. Just thank your lucky stars that they've been able to make the playoffs 6 times in the last 8 years. Don't you know you're just snap decision away from being back in the '90s??

lol. Yeah, typing that made me throw up in my mouth a bit. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2017, 01:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote:

EDIT - I'll follow this up to a comment I made earlier...the Bengals (seem to) think they have (had) a good enough roster to contend without addressing (obvious?) immediate needs. This is why they draft for the future so much. They care so much about a few years down the road that they don't notice the road blocks right in front of them. It doesn't help that they didn't address these immediate needs sufficiently/properly in FA for years.

Yep. Like not addressing Center or signing a LB that could cover a TE 2-3 years ago.

We had the cap space.

Some fans seem to take a perverse joy in the Bengals hoarding cap space. Yay Bengals! You made a profit!!!

[*ochocincos*]

(09-06-2017, 02:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Hey! Stop your whining! Asking for a team to try harder to get one, single, solitary playoff win in the last 26 years (something EVERY SINGLE NFL TEAM HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO IN THAT TIME--AND MORE) is just too much to ask for. Just thank your lucky stars that they've been able to make the playoffs 6 times in the last 8 years. Don't you know you're just snap decision away from being back in the '90s??

lol. Yeah, typing that made me throw up in my mouth a bit. 

Not to mention some probably fear that if people stop supporting the Bengals in Cincinnati, Mike Brown will just move the team elsewhere.
And no one wants to become like St. Louis, Oakland, or San Diego (although San Diego at least has awesome weather and beaches lol).

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2017, 02:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not to mention some probably fear that if people stop supporting the Bengals in Cincinnati, Mike Brown will just move the team elsewhere.
And no one wants to become like St. Louis, Oakland, or San Diego (although San Diego at least has awesome weather and beaches lol).

Honestly, instead of building a stadium in the early-2000's had the Bengals left they would have probably got a new team by now with new ownership.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-06-2017, 01:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If there is any saving grace, it's that the Bengals at least had a plan for losing (most of) those players...it just hasn't worked out well so far.
Williams was to replace Nelson.
Ogbuehi and Fisher were to replace Whitworth and Smith.
LaFell and Boyd were to replace Jones and Sanu.
Ross is to replace LaFell in 1-2 years.
Mixon was to replace Burkhead (and eventually Hill).
Kirkpatrick, Dennard, and WJ3 were to (eventually) replace Newman, Hall, and Adam Jones.

They have done a good job of drafting replacements ahead of time, but many of those picks aren't panning out. It just shows how much of a toss up the draft really is (lets face it, luck is a huge part of it). That's why when you nail draft picks like AJ Green, Atkins, Dalton, Dunlap, Leon, Eifert, etc...you should capitalize on that and approach offseasons with a little more urgency.

Or you can underachieve, then watch all that drafted talent slowly dissipate while trying to use the draft for damage control.

(09-06-2017, 02:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Hey! Stop your whining! Asking for a team to try harder to get one, single, solitary playoff win in the last 26 years (something EVERY SINGLE NFL TEAM HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO IN THAT TIME--AND MORE) is just too much to ask for. Just thank your lucky stars that they've been able to make the playoffs 6 times in the last 8 years. Don't you know you're just snap decision away from being back in the '90s??

lol. Yeah, typing that made me throw up in my mouth a bit. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2017, 04:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They have done a good job of drafting replacements ahead of time, but many of those picks aren't panning out. It just shows how much of a toss up the draft really is (lets face it, luck is a huge part of it). That's why when you nail draft picks like AJ Green, Atkins, Dalton, Dunlap, Leon, Eifert, etc...you should capitalize on that and approach offseasons with a little more urgency.

Or you can underachieve, then watch all that drafted talent slowly dissipate while trying to use the draft for damage control.

That's just it. The team makes you believe that signing free agents is risky and the draft has less risk.

Free agents atleast have tape on them out there of how the far against pro level competition.