I was wrong about...

[*ochocincos*]

I'm creating this thread for everyone to admit that they were wrong about something pertaining to the Bengals.

I'll start:
I was wrong when I stated Andy Dalton was a top 15 QB. He has demonstrated that he's too dependent on too many other pieces to be a good QB. Top 15 QBs should not need a good OL and a ton of weapons just to have a good season.

[Big Boss]

I was mistaken as well. I put him near the bottom of the top 10.

I sympathize with him regarding this trash offensive-line, but great quarterbacks find ways to make plays in the face of pressure. Two games into this season and he has done nothing but fold like a lawn chair.

[car91]

I was wrong about the Bengals challenging for a playoff spot. I thought the offensive talent would hide the OC's lack of talent. Wrong!

[J24]

Ugh it's not that he needs a good Offensive line it's that he needs an NFL caliber line which we don't have.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-15-2017, 11:36 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Ugh it's not that he needs a good Offensive line it's that he needs an NFL caliber line which we don't have.

We've seen Dalton with a good offensive line and lack of weapons, and he was mediocre then. He needs both a good offensive line and an array of weapons to perform well. If your QB needs all that, it might be easier to find a different QB than completely stack the rest of the team.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-15-2017, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm creating this thread for everyone to admit that they were wrong about something pertaining to the Bengals.

I'll start:
I was wrong when I stated Andy Dalton was a top 15 QB. He has demonstrated that he's too dependent on too many other pieces to be a good QB. Top 15 QBs should not need a good OL and a ton of weapons just to have a good season.

Name me 15 QBs that could have a successful season behind the worst OL in the league, with no run game and the worst OC in the league.

I'll be wrong about you not being able to do so if you can.

The NFL isn't the NBA. You can't have LeBron and a bunch of turds and still win. Just look at the Seahawks. Russell Wilson with no OL and he played like crap Week 1. But at least he doesn't have to deal with Ken Zampese as his OC.

[thillan]

I do think I was wrong about Dalton. The o-line is horrible, but man, he is making some awful decisions. More than a few of his throws (when he had NO pressure) were just terrible.

[bengalguy71]

I never thought Dalton was a great QB, but I still think he is a good QB, and I believe, if he were completely honest, he would admit that he has zero confidence in Zampese and the plays he's calling are not working and I believe that Dalton is subconsciously 'pressing' and that it has become a 'mental' thing with him now.

So much of this game is mental and I believe his poor play is the lack of continuity between him and Zampese. I can't think of ANY time where he had back to back games like this in his career.

In fact, the worse game of his career was that primetime game, at home, against Cleveland and he came back and had his best game of his career against the Saints in New Orleans.

[Hammerstripes]

I was wrong (so far) about the WR and RB groups being so explosive that teams would really have to honor those guys and it would compensate for the terrible O-line.

[CageTheBengal]

(09-15-2017, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm creating this thread for everyone to admit that they were wrong about something pertaining to the Bengals.

I'll start:
I was wrong when I stated Andy Dalton was a top 15 QB. He has demonstrated that he's too dependent on too many other pieces to be a good QB. Top 15 QBs should not need a good OL and a ton of weapons just to have a good season.

What are you talking about man?

What top 15 QB do you thnk would be lighting it up on this team right now?

"Why can't I stop this 300 pound man?!"

"Cause Dalton."

[*ochocincos*]

(09-15-2017, 11:40 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Name me 15 QBs that could have a successful season behind the worst OL in the league, with no run game and the worst OC in the league.

I'll be wrong about you not being able to do so if you can.

The NFL isn't the NBA. You can't have LeBron and a bunch of turds and still win. Just look at the Seahawks. Russell Wilson with no OL and he played like crap Week 1. But at least he doesn't have to deal with Ken Zampese as his OC.

That's fair, but when looking at top 15 QBs, there are definitely 10 better than Dalton, and there are about 4-5 others that are young and some people already consider them ahead of Dalton. My argument against the youngsters was I need to see more than 3 seasons to determine they are better, but it's hard to defend Dalton now as a top 15 QB when he's performed so poorly.

QBs definitely ahead of him:
Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Luck
Ryan
Rivers
Newton
Stafford

At this point, Alex Smith and Sam Bradford are showing they can be as good or better than Dalton when they have OL and some weapons. Carr, Winston, Mariota, and even Prescott have been very good in their short NFL careers.

It's impossible to determine which QBs outside of Brady, Rodgers, and Brees that would perform as poorly or even worse than Dalton with the exact same offense. All I know is Dalton looks terrible without having a good line, and he's looked below average when not having at least three very good weapons available.

[TKUHL]

(09-15-2017, 11:47 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I was wrong (so far) about the WR and RB groups being so explosive that teams would really have to honor those guys and it would compensate for the terrible O-line.

It seems this was the teams thinking this offseason. Get fast, about the only thing this "fast offense" has managed to do is get us out of playoff contention fast.

I was wrong thinking Marvin without an extension in a prove it year would actually be a competent NFL caliber coach.

[Au165]

I was wrong when I believed Zampese would be able to put together a competent game plan to compensate for the lack of O line talent.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-15-2017, 11:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: We've seen Dalton with a good offensive line and lack of weapons, and he was mediocre then. He needs both a good offensive line and an array of weapons to perform well. If your QB needs all that, it might be easier to find a different QB than completely stack the rest of the team.

That's my point. How good would Roethlisberger be with these receivers and RB's?

Roethlisberger had a terrible line for most of his career.

Put Roethlisberger on the Bengals and they're probably 2-0 right now. That's it. 1 change.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-15-2017, 11:51 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: What are you talking about man?

What top 15 QB do you thnk would be lighting it up on this team right now?

"Why can't I stop this 300 pound man?!"

"Cause Dalton."

Did I say "lighting up"? No, I did not. You are putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

I swear, people criticizing my opinion that I was wrong about Dalton being a top 15 QB are acting like I said he's the worst QB in the league. I didn't say that.
At some point, to be a top 15 QB, you need to put the team on your back and win games without a good OL and/or having all your weapons available. The instances in which Dalton has done that have been extremely minimal.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-15-2017, 11:51 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: What are you talking about man?

What top 15 QB do you thnk would be lighting it up on this team right now?

"Why can't I stop this 300 pound man?!"

"Cause Dalton."

Rep for that sig. 

I was also wrong about Dalton. He really had me fooled after 2015. I was ready to put him in that 2nd tier 6-10 type QBs. I know the oline and OC have been awful, but man has he regressed. I really, really miss Hue.

[CageTheBengal]

(09-15-2017, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Did I say "lighting up"? No, I did not. You are putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

I swear, people criticizing my opinion that I was wrong about Dalton being a top 15 QB are acting like I said he's the worst QB in the league. I didn't say that.
At some point, to be a top 15 QB, you need to put the team on your back and win games without a good OL and/or having all your weapons available. The instances in which Dalton has done that have been extremely minimal.

Ok poor word choice.

Which top 15 QB do you think would succeed under this offense?

Are we talking like Tannenhill?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

.....giving Zampese a pass for last year, and giving him another chance this year.  He is who I thought he is.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-15-2017, 11:51 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: What are you talking about man?

What top 15 QB do you thnk would be lighting it up on this team right now?

"Why can't I stop this 300 pound man?!"

"Cause Dalton."

I pretty much agree with you, but I mainly just quoted you to say : You sir, have killed it with that sig.  You have won the interwebz for today.  I only wish fred were here to see it..... :andy:

[*ochocincos*]

(09-15-2017, 12:14 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Ok poor word choice.

Which top 15 QB do you think would succeed under this offense?

"Succeed" is a vague term, but I'd consider succeeding in this offense as 250 yards, 2 TDs, and 1 or less INT a game.
Dalton has amassed 394 yards, 0 TDs, 4 INTs, 54.5% completion percentage. Yes, two of those INTs were tipped, but I still somewhat blame him for the second because he's always getting tipped at the line. He's missed some pretty open receivers (sometimes in favor of very covered receivers). It's also his choice of whether to go with the play that's called or change the play at the line.

QBs I think that could "succeed" according to the above would be Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, Luck (if he weren't hurt), Wilson, Newton, Winston, Carr, maybe Mariota, maybe Prescott, maybe Alex Smith, maybe Sam Bradford.

If you disagree about these QBs being able to do so, that's your opinion but unless you can make a legitimate argument with proof that they couldn't, you won't change my mind.