Are we driving McCarrons price up/down?

[TKUHL]

What do we do if Dalton performs similar to the first two games. Will he be benched. If so they can't bring him back, McCarron will be the guy the rest of the season. What if McCarron lights it up (Doubtful but possible) are we screwing ourself with McCarron being a FA. So what does this team do. Is benching Dalton the right move whether it's this game or a couple more games down the road, or is it a mistake. If McCarron plays horrible are we stuck with two QB's whose trade value will take a considerable drop. I'm just curious what everyone thinks if this decision needs to be made. Not debating if this mess is Daltons fault or not. Thoughts.

[muskiesfan]

For now, you have to roll with Dalton. He has a proven track record and gives us our best chance to win. If a couple of more games go by and he's still sitting on a 40ish QBR, it's probably time to make a move. I think the Bengals have already driven McCarron's value into the ground. The time to trade him was after the 2015 playoff game. Right now, it's simply wait out the clock.

The Bengals are playing a game that McCarron is a RFA after this season. If the league doesn't agree and allows him to become an UFA, we'll lose him for nothing. Unless McCarron becomes the starter moving forward, the Bengals played this as wrong as they possibly could've, which is no surprise at all.

[leonardfan40]

(09-21-2017, 07:21 PM)TKUHL Wrote: What do we do if Dalton performs similar to the first two games. Will he be benched. If so they can't bring him back, McCarron will be the guy the rest of the season. What if McCarron lights it up (Doubtful but possible) are we screwing ourself with McCarron being a FA. So what does this team do. Is benching Dalton the right move whether it's this game or a couple more games down the road, or is it a mistake. If McCarron plays horrible are we stuck with two QB's whose trade value will take a considerable drop. I'm just curious what everyone thinks if this decision needs to be made. Not debating if this mess is Daltons fault or not. Thoughts.

I don't want to put McCarron in at all. For starters I'm still of the belief Andy is the better QB and can take this team all the way if he had a decent offensive line. Sure he's not an elite guy who can make any offense a great one, but there are only a few of those in the world. Most QB's are dependent on having good weapons, line, and coaching/play calling. Right now 2 of those things are downright terrible for us. 

Most importantly I don't want McCarron in because I don't see any QB playing well with no line and poor coaching. If we put him in now he will not play as well as he did in 2015 which will hurt his trade value. Then like you said we have 2 QBs with no value.

[SunsetBengal]

Benching Dalton? I've not read anything to lead me to believe that the team is even considering benching Dalton.

[TKUHL]

Yea I mean I agree with ya both. It's a bad situation to be in. I think they kinda missed the boat on getting any decent value for AJ. And Dalton, we can just hope he plays better but at the same time we're asking him to perform behind this line. I'm sure he would be playing lights out if he could, so it's kinda unfair to expect him to improve when the problem is something that may be out of his control. I can really see this being a major decision this team will have to deal with in the coming weeks. All we can do is just sit back and see how they decide to Bungal this up.

[muskiesfan]

(09-21-2017, 07:57 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Yea I mean I agree with ya both. It's a bad situation to be in. I think they kinda missed the boat on getting any decent value for AJ. And Dalton, we can just hope he plays better but at the same time we're asking him to perform behind this line. I'm sure he would be playing lights out if he could, so it's kinda unfair to expect him to improve when the problem is something that may be out of his control. I can really see this being a major decision this team will have to deal with in the coming weeks. All we can do is just sit back and see how they decide to Bungal this up.

It really is a tough spot. My only thought is if they decide to roll with McCarron, do it before the trade deadline. I think they could find a trade partner for him. I'm more of a Dalton fan, but I'll throw my support behind McCarron if he takes over the reigns. I think trading Dalton would bring a much better return than McCarron would, but moving on from Dalton to McCarron would be throwing in the towel on this season and maybe a couple of more. At the same time, if we're doing a rebuild, lets commit to it and do it right. Don't do like the Reds and half-ass and drag it out as long as possible.

[THE PISTONS]

Once you bench Dalton his career is basically over here.

As far as McCarron's trade value...that depends on if he is a free agent this offseason or not. But, yeah if we do play him and he plays bad...he has low trade value.

[TKUHL]

we can pretty much agree it doesn't matter who plays behind this line, there's a good chance their gonna suck. So I guess the worst case scenario would be Dalton getting hurt before he's able to play somewhat decent, forcing us to throw McCarron out there to the Wolves which again good chance he will suck which will result In two QB's with very little value if any at all.

So...When Marvin refuses to bench Ced and he gets Dalton killed, Will that finally be it for Marvin. Should I sharpen my pitch fork now?

[grampahol]

Anyone remember a guy named Anderson who was benched then took us to the SB? Benching Andy wouldn't be an automatic death nail for his or McC's career.  It would be disappointing, but nothing carved in stone.  

[The Caped Crusader]

Ride it with Dalton. I don't see AJ improving anything. I'm not sure why so many couch QBs are keen on that. I guess AJ is going to call better plays and block for himself while throwing passes to receivers and making them separate from coverage.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Until the offensive line is coached correctly, it doesn't matter who the Bengals start at quarterback.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2017, 09:14 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Until the offensive line is coached correctly, it doesn't matter who the Bengals start at quarterback.

Then we really should have traded McCarron for a 2nd round pick.  That's what irks me.  I'm not saying we should bench Dalton or that it would do any good, but according to our own valuations we have a young QB on the roster who is worthy of a 1st round pick that we absolutely refuse to play when our starting QB is playing like crap.

Then the argument is that our line is so bad that it doesn't matter who we start at QB...which means we should have traded McCarron for a 2nd round pick.  If your team is so bad that your QB, a position that is absolutely critical to success in the NFL, is worthless then why make your top priority having 2 QBs who can't make a difference? Half the teams in the NFL have 0 long-term starters on their roster but here we are with two of them and yet we are facing an 0-3 record.

Take THAT Jaguars, you are shuffling between Bort Bortles and Chad Henne and we have two 1st round caliber QBs! The 49ers have Brian Hoyer and are dying to spend $200 million on Kirk Cousins? The Cardinals have rusty ass Palmer falling apart and Blame Gabbert waiting in the wings? Mwa ha ha look at how QB rich we are! We can't score a TD but we have the best QB situation in the NFL, by gum!

It just doesn't add up outside of "I'm Mike Brown and I don't have to make trades if I don't want to because I'm not going to get fired."  

Trade McCarron?  No way!
Play McCarron?  No way!

What are we saving him for?  In case Dalton gets injured and we are 3-6 and need to make a run?  Meh.

[Luvnit2]

If Bengals lose again Sunday, the bigger question may be do the Bengals consider trading Dalton to a team in need of a QB right now because the are playoff ready other then QB.

Is Semien the answer in Denver?
Is Palmer done in Arizona?
Is Eli done in NY (not a likely playoff team, but did make 2016 playoffs)
How about the Jags?

If not a trade for AD now, Jay Gruden is a possibility in 2018 if they do not want to pay Cousins a king's ransom.

If the Bengals keep losing, do they give AJ a shot to improve his trade prospects? I say no because they can easily tag him for a small type salary in 2018, but the more he plays, the more we pay.

[RoyleRedlegs]

McCarron's garbage performances in the PS sunk his trade value. He was peak value last season. That's when the team needed to strike.

[wolfkaosaun]

(09-23-2017, 12:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: McCarron's garbage performances in the PS sunk his trade value. He was peak value last season. That's when the team needed to strike.

Yep

People tend to only remember the 4th quarter of the playoff game. Not McCarron in the other 3 quarters, or against teams without Gabbert or Mallet as their starter, or this year's preseason games.

[Circleville Guy]

Andy has been decent enough to get teams to the playoffs in recent years, he had played his best ball recently too. Everyone and their brother were saying that this line was gonna be horrible, look how they're grading out so far. For some reason, this management was the only ones who believed that it would be fine. Andy has also played like crap, he at least has a history of above average play that suggests that he can come out of it. The line just sucks and there's nothing to suggest that these guys will ever be decent. If you were QB on this team, would you play comfortable and confident or paranoid and scared? I know I wouldn't be comfortable.

[wolfkaosaun]

(09-23-2017, 01:51 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Andy has been decent enough to get teams to the playoffs in recent years, he had played his best ball recently too. Everyone and their brother were saying that this line was gonna be horrible, look how they're grading out so far. For some reason, this management was the only ones who believed that it would be fine. Andy has also played like crap, he at least has a history of above average play that suggests that he can come out of it. The line just sucks and there's nothing to suggest that these guys will ever be decent. If you were QB on this team, would you play comfortable and confident or paranoid and scared? I know I wouldn't be comfortable.

Another issue no one seems to talk about is OC play-calling.

Ever since Hue left, we have had no offensive identity. Last year, what was our offensive identity? Or even this year.

Last year felt like Zampese was using a shell of Hue's playbook. This year? Everyone complained about play-calling.

We've seen what good play-callers can do. Under McVay, the Rams have scored more than 40 points in 2 games this year. That's as many games as they did while Fisher was their HC. Yes. Every. Season. Combined. And we've seen Goff take huge steps forward.

[*Nately120*]

Palmer, Fitzgerald, and Arians are probably all retiring after this year. They'll start Gabbert and ease a rookie in next season.

[PikesPeakUC]

(09-23-2017, 12:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If Bengals lose again Sunday, the bigger question may be do the Bengals consider trading Dalton to a team in need of a QB right now because the are playoff ready other then QB.

Is Semien the answer in Denver?
Is Palmer done in Arizona?
Is Eli done in NY (not a likely playoff team, but did make 2016 playoffs)
How about the Jags?

If not a trade for AD now, Jay Gruden is a possibility in 2018 if they do not want to pay Cousins a king's ransom.

If the Bengals keep losing, do they give AJ a shot to improve his trade prospects? I say no because they can easily tag him for a small type salary in 2018, but the more he plays, the more we pay.

Of these, I think Arizona and Jacksonville are the viable options. Siemian has played really well this year and is on a rookie contract, and the Giants drafted Davis Webb as their next guy. 

[TKUHL]

(09-23-2017, 01:55 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Another issue no one seems to talk about is OC play-calling.

Ever since Hue left, we have had no offensive identity. Last year, what was our offensive identity? Or even this year.

Last year felt like Zampese was using a shell of Hue's playbook. This year? Everyone complained about play-calling.

We've seen what good play-callers can do. Under McVay, the Rams have scored more than 40 points in 2 games this year. That's as many games as they did while Fisher was their HC. Yes. Every. Season. Combined. And we've seen Goff take huge steps forward.

I was thinking the same while watching the Rams/49ers. I couldn't help but wonder if this team would be a lot better if we just switched out all the coaches. I think we would be. I know the Rams got some pretty good players in the draft, but it's not like we don't have any, or have the past 15 years. Brown needs to grow a pair and move on from Marvin. This team seems to fear making any major changes thinking it will automatically doom this team back to the 90's. It seems like we're in the 90's already anyway so just make some damn changes already Mikey.