Case building for taking Deshaun Watson over John Ross in Draft - 1st round REDO

[depthchart]

(09-25-2017, 04:13 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: If they had of taken Watson they could have traded Dalton and shed his cap hit plus grabbed picks (his trade value might have been decent last year) or traded McCarron for a second round pick. But that would the management recognizing Daltons limitations and wanting a chance to have better

Exactly...

Picking Watson creates more trade options with the QBs we already had on the Roster.

Trade McCarron during 2017 Draft then Andy Dalton in 2018 for an example or Dalton in 2017.

Trade options get created versus just taking John Ross in a QB driven league.

[*Synric*]

(09-25-2017, 04:24 PM)depthchart Wrote: Exactly...

Picking Watson creates more trade options with the QBs we already had on the Roster.

Trade McCarron during 2017 Draft then Andy Dalton in 2018 for an example or Dalton in 2017.

Trade options get created versus just taking John Ross in a QB driven league.

Then when the rookie QB has rookie issues the exact same people bashing Dalton would be complaining they traded away a franchise QB for a rookie QB drafted at 9 in a weak QB draft.

[J24]

I would rather have drafted Allen like Pistons said.

[depthchart]

(09-25-2017, 04:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Then when the rookie QB has rookie issues the exact same people bashing Dalton would be complaining they traded away a franchise QB for a rookie QB drafted at 9 in a weak QB draft.

By drafting Watson you lock him up for 5 years.

Another option is to keep Dalton for another 1 to 3 years, trade McCarron and have Watson in place watching & learning.

If Dalton falters, go to Watson at some point during that time period.

Get a pipeline started of QBs until we Nail down an Elite QB.

[CanadianBengal]

(09-25-2017, 04:35 PM)LSynric Wrote: Then when the rookie QB has rookie issues the exact same people bashing Dalton would be complaining they traded away a franchise QB for a rookie QB drafted at 9 in a weak QB draft.

Sorry not seeing Dalton as a franchise QB after past two years. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-25-2017, 04:13 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: If they had of taken Watson they could have traded Dalton and shed his cap hit plus grabbed picks (his trade value might have been decent last year) or traded McCarron for a second round pick. But that would the management recognizing Daltons limitations and wanting a chance to have better

And done what with it? They exited the FA period with $18.5m and all they did was stupid crap like throwing $3.25m at Andre Smith to be the #3 RG, waste $5m on LaFell, and roll over the rest.

If the Bengals shed Dalton's cap hit, they would spend part of it on extending Russell Bodine as their starter for 3x what anyone else in the NFL would be willing to pay him to be their backup, and roll over the rest.

Also funny how apparently some people are already convinced Watson is going to be something good. Dude's not been good outside of running the ball, and he didn't have to contend with Ken Zampese.


- - - - - - - - - -

Besides... if you're going to redo the 1st round, Kareem Hunt is the OBVIOUS no-brainer choice to make. 3 games, 401 rushing yards (8.5 YPC) 4 TD... 9 receptions, 137 yards (15.2 AVG) 2 TD. Even if you stick that behind the Bengals garbage OL, I can't imagine he still wouldn't be great. Dude's making folks miss left and right.

Option #2 for a 1st round redo would be Evan Engram who has 13/138 (10.6)/1 so far at TE this year.

Any option after that for a 1st round redo is any OL who are doing well so far this year.

[Joelist]

This whole thread instantly became a joke with the bogus claim that the Texans line is as bad as ours. Sorry but it isn't even close ours is far and away the worst in the NFL. We only lost to Watson because of one play where the defense took horrible angle and missed multiple easy tackles and the stupid one where Eifert went out of bounds for no reason then came back in - our secondary also dropped two easy pick sixes from him. New England this season has been epically bad on defense and they still picked Watson off twice.

[Hammerstripes]

Come on, seriously?

This team was thinking about the playoffs. There was NO case to take Watson when you are in the middle of trying to get there.

I don't think a coach in the last year of his contract would make that move either.

That being said, the only change at #9 I would make was drafting OJ Howard since Eifert can't get on the field again.

[The Caped Crusader]

Oh...These threads again...

[thillan]

This year's draft has some GREAT talent at QB. I'd love for us to get Darnold, but I don't think it will happen. While our offense is bad, I think our defense is good enough for us to win some games.

I also think that it is too early to dismiss John Ross. I mean, the guy has played one game, and it could just be that he came back a bit too early. He has HUGE playmaking ability, so you should give him a chance.

[Shake n Blake]

The Patriots are dead last in pass yards allowed and pass TDs allowed.

Alex Smith roasted them for 4 TDs week 1. Brees threw for 436.

Watson played like crap when he was getting sacked. The Pats only got him twice.

[Derrick]

(09-25-2017, 03:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Mocks I see have Rosen going #1. Darnold going #3.

It's the Mikey Brown Bengals so it won't make any difference who they select.

[Housh]

And we still wouldn’t play him so if we did take Watson and Ross had a solid game somewhere else you’d be making this same thread saying we should’ve taken Ross. Can’t judge a guy who ain’t played much bro

[Joelist]

These threads are both sad and laughable.

Sad in that this forum is starting to turn into the same unreadably bitter place the old one was and for the same reason - the anti-Andy "fans" are spamming it with their hate threads (usually thinly disguised like this one was).

Laughable in the complete failure to diagnose the actual core issue (bad offensive line) and instead trying to scapegoat one player. Note that Lazor was boxed in on what he could do by the horrid line (although to his credit he tried to do some stuff to relieve the pressure) and had to make most of the passing game short and quick and also that even with using one back predominantly the running game was still poor.

Basically, until we have at least a competent Offensive Line all else is just blather.

[Housh]

(09-28-2017, 01:25 AM)Joelist Wrote: These threads are both sad and laughable.

Sad in that this forum is starting to turn into the same unreadably bitter place the old one was and for the same reason - the anti-Andy "fans" are spamming it with their hate threads (usually thinly disguised like this one was).

Laughable in the complete failure to diagnose the actual core issue (bad offensive line) and instead trying to scapegoat one player. Note that Lazor was boxed in on what he could do by the horrid line (although to his credit he tried to do some stuff to relieve the pressure) and had to make most of the passing game short and quick and also that even with using one back predominantly the running game was still poor.

Basically, until we have at least a competent Offensive Line all else is just blather.

I let a lot of topics slide because whatever. We suck and ppl are mad and need to vent.

But hindsight topics where people are like “player X had 200 receiving yards today we could’ve taken him in spot Y. This just shows you how much we suck”, really piss me off. One because you can’t go back in time so why even care. And 2 most of the guys just had one off games and never do it again or show any consistency to do it.

The same person who’d make a thread like this would make the same thread if we had that player and another player on another team had 1 good game.

[depthchart]

(09-28-2017, 01:25 AM)Joelist Wrote: These threads are both sad and laughable.

Sad in that this forum is starting to turn into the same unreadably bitter place the old one was and for the same reason - the anti-Andy "fans" are spamming it with their hate threads (usually thinly disguised like this one was).

Laughable in the complete failure to diagnose the actual core issue (bad offensive line) and instead trying to scapegoat one player. Note that Lazor was boxed in on what he could do by the horrid line (although to his credit he tried to do some stuff to relieve the pressure) and had to make most of the passing game short and quick and also that even with using one back predominantly the running game was still poor.

Basically, until we have at least a competent Offensive Line all else is just blather.

You may want to read through the Thread again.

It isn't a Hate- Andy thread as you misdiagnosed.

I mentioned in the thread that we could keep Andy for 1 to 3 more seasons while having Watson on the roster instead of John Ross to learn behind him. Lock Watson up for 5 years. Andy would still have a chance to take the team somewhere. Or trade Andy earlier on. 

It was about having Options at the QB position in a QB driven league.

It was also about getting people's opinions on the 9th overall pick last year and giving mine. Would people still take John Ross ? Would a QB choice like Watson have been better long term for the Organization ? Trade down and get O-line could have been suggested and I would have done that over the John Ross pick. Others may still want Ross or some other idea. I'm open to ideas. To various OPTIONS and they are Interesting to consider. Hence the thread, to generate Interesting ideas from others and offer mine.

I offered an idea and was interested in the ideas of others. O J Howard to replace Eifert was another idea I found better than John Ross at the time.

As for Watson himself, he is a rookie prospect that has a Chance to be special. John Ross has a Chance to be special. Hopefully Ross will be Special because that is who we have. Taking a Chance either way.

I saw a play from Watson late in the 4th quarter versus the Patriots. He was virtually surrounded by 4 Patriots that all took shots at him. Watson escaped all 4 of them with multiple moves in the pocket, rolled out to his right and completed a nice down field pass. Few quarterbacks in the NFL could have escaped that pressure and that Aaron Rodgers type scrambling and play extending ability might be nice to have on our roster at the QB position to develop. If you don't agree or just don't think Watson will be a Franchise Caliber QB that is fine.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-27-2017, 08:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Patriots are dead last in pass yards allowed and pass TDs allowed.

Alex Smith roasted them for 4 TDs week 1. Brees threw for 436.

Watson played like crap when he was getting sacked. The Pats only got him twice.

his performance against the leagues worst pass defense is noteworthy because it serves a narrative. lol

[*ochocincos*]

(09-28-2017, 01:25 AM)Joelist Wrote: These threads are both sad and laughable.

Sad in that this forum is starting to turn into the same unreadably bitter place the old one was and for the same reason - the anti-Andy "fans" are spamming it with their hate threads (usually thinly disguised like this one was).

Laughable in the complete failure to diagnose the actual core issue (bad offensive line) and instead trying to scapegoat one player. Note that Lazor was boxed in on what he could do by the horrid line (although to his credit he tried to do some stuff to relieve the pressure) and had to make most of the passing game short and quick and also that even with using one back predominantly the running game was still poor.

Basically, until we have at least a competent Offensive Line all else is just blather.

If the Bengals had something positive to talk about, I'm sure there would be positive threads.
The OL is abysmal. The QB has underperformed (so far). The defense has given up two huge plays that ultimately determined the outcome of the game. The team is 0-3.

If people weren't venting and talking about other options, there wouldn't be anything else to talk about.

[depthchart]

(09-28-2017, 12:42 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: his performance against the leagues worst pass defense is noteworthy because it serves a narrative. lol

There are no Narratives being served here.

Not projecting Watson out to be an Elite QB on one performance either.

Just mentioned some positives that I have noticed about the kid.

Like I said earlier, we would be taking a "Chance" on any player taken 9th overall, including Ross and Watson.

You want to devolve the conversation by claiming I have some Big Agenda here but I merely wanted a polite conversation on my idea & any ideas others may have on the 9th overall pick in Hindsight.

Likely won't be any totally clear answers on who was best to take at #9 overall for at least 5 years which I can admit. Can you or do you have a Crystal Ball on Watson ?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-25-2017, 04:47 PM)depthchart Wrote: Get a pipeline started of QBs until we Nail down an Elite QB.

Sooooooooooooooooooo, you want us to follow the Mike Brown formula from the 90s?