Bengals Awful O Line and Mike Brown and Whitworth

[kevin]

(10-28-2017, 03:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am responding to points made by color:

1. The Rams offered Whitworth $11 M...the Bengals offered him $10 M...but it wasn't even close? Seems like a $1 M difference to me. As far as the length of contract, what he has done in the past should NOT warrant more in terms of length of contract offered due to Whit's age. One of the biggest gripes we hear around these forums was that ML and MB are too loyal and often hold onto players too long. Or that they play the vets at the expense of the young guys not getting experience. Sorry, but Whitworth is at the age where a season by season contract is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

2. Zeitler is simply NOT worth the $12M per year that the browns offered. He was part of this O line last year and was partially responsible for that unit being poor also. The browns had stupid money to throw at people...and they did. Evidence is for the money they paid Zeitler, and the whole $16 M for Osweiler and a 2nd round pick fiasco. 

3. Eric Winston s no better than either of the rookie OTs we are currently playing. Go back and look at some of his terrible line play last year. That fact is backed up by the fact that with all the bad O line play in the NFL, no other team has signed him either.


Your assertions that the Bengals are cheap is an old narrative that has been proven false over and over again repeatedly. And your idea that Winston is not being re-signed because he is a player rep is nonsensical.

First, let me replace your word BENGALS with my words MIKE BROWN.   You say assertions that Mike Brown is cheap is an old narrative that has been proven false over and over again repeatedly.   HOW SO BEAKER ???  How has Mike Brown proven over and over again that he is not cheap ?   I'm interested in how you back up your statement.  Mike Browns reputation of being one of the cheapest NFL owners has been well earned by Mike Brown over many decades.  No GM, No Scouts, Only Northern NFL Team with No Indoor Practice Facility.  Ex Bengals from Bob Trumpy to Collinsworth have talked of Mike Browns cheapness as has ESPN and most of NFL.   You Beaker say it's not true.  How so Beaker ?  How has Mike Brown proven these assertions of cheapness false as you say ?   I say it's the opposite Beaker and over and over repeatedly the assertions of Mike Browns cheapness are proven TRUE.   All you have to do is look at the Bengals when Paul Brown died. Mike Brown took over a team his dad had just had in 2 Super Bowls.  Mike Brown immediately went cheap and turned a Super Bowl team into the worst team in the NFL.  They became called THE BUNGLES. The joke of the NFL.  27 years as owner and Mike Brown holds this record of no play-off wins that no other owner would want.  This losing record comes from just being the cheapest owner in the NFL, and the assertions of his cheapness are proven TRUE. 

Now Mr Beaker, you say due to Whitworths age that a one year contract was perfectly acceptable.  Well, not to Mr Whitworth who saw it as a slap in the face.  Not by other NFL teams besides Rams who lined up to offer Whitworth a longer contract.  I say you are wrong on this also Beaker, because Whitworth is one of the best Bengals ever and deserved treated better....and because we still needed him on this team as the lousy 2017 O Line is proving.   You can toe the Mike Brown Corporate Line all you want Beaker, as if you are a part owner or in the Brown Family Will, but the one year contract was an insult.  Mike Brown and You Beaker, saying Whitworth too old and get rid of him.  Well, The Rams were happy to give Whitworth a long contract, Beaker.   Whitworth liked that The Rams showed they wanted him after Mike Brown didn't.  Whit also liked that the Rams don't play the Bengals for years, and gives him a lot of distance between him and Mike Brown. ....Also Beaker, I will use this as more proof that the assertions of Mike Browns cheapness are correct.   So the best Bengals Left Tackle ever besides Munoz and you agree with the Mike Brown insult of a one year contract, Beaker.  Well, other NFL teams including the Rams quickly offered him a long contract, again proving Mike Browns cheap. 

You say Zeitler too expensive. Well, Mike Brown said Max Montoya, Steinbach and Zeitler too expensive. In fact, in all cases, Mike Brown said, " Why should I pay big money to an offensive guard ".....Looking at our centers, I would say he refuses to pay centers as well. How much are guards and centers worth to Mike Brown or you Beaker ? We had a an O Line that took us to 2 Super Bowls before Paul Brown died and Mike took over. I question why pay Chad or AJ if you have no pass blocking time. Why Have running backs if you have no run blocking. Why pay so much to quarterbacks from Boomer to Klingler up to Carson and Dalton if you can't protect the QB and they get hit on every play, causing plays blown up, causing losses, causing injuries due to no blocking. HOW MUCH IS Mike Brown willing to pay centers and guards in the NFL. Considering 27 years of no play-off wins, Mike Brown isn't willing to pay for a Super Bowl offensive line and over and over he has said so when getting rid of Montoya, Steinbach, Zeitler. That Mike Brown refuses to pay guards and centers and brags about it is proof the assertions of his cheapness are TRUE.


Now some have said Coach Lewis should have franchise tagged Whitworth.   WRONG.  That is Mike Browns department.  Mike Brown does the Franchise Tagging on this team.  Here again it's a slap in the face. A one year tag contract when other teams are willing to offer Whitworth a longer contract. ....One still says he see's Coach Lewis as 90 % of the problem.  Look, Mike Brown was stinking up Cincinnati 12 years before Coach Lewis came here.  Cincinnati was THE BUNGLES 12 years before Coach Lewis.  I see it as just A FACT that MIKE BROWN is 100 % the problem of the 27 tears of Mike Brown.  Players and coaches have came and gone, but Mike Brown is the constant.  Now Beaker, you can toe the Mike Brown line all you want, but you must explain in great detail how Mike Brown has proven his critics wrong and that he is not cheap.  Please explain yourself.   I say the 27 years of futility of Mike Brown and his cheapness and this team laughed at and called BUNGLES and no play-off wins in 27 years proves the assertions of cheapness by most in the NFL are correct.  I also say Bengal fans deserved better over these 27 years and Mike Brown went cheap on the fans.  To that, there is no justification or redemption, Beaker.  I refuse to toe the Mike Brown Corporate line on going cheap on the fans.  

So Beaker, I ask for an itemized list of how Mike Brown proved the assertions of his cheapness inaccurate.  I look at Mike Brown over the 27 years and see the assertions of his cheapness are more than proven in losing and the term BUNGLES and I lay the name BUNGLES on Mike Brown, because that name didn't exist under Paul Brown. 

I am glad to see most on here felt Whitworth was not treated right by Mike Brown and that the 2017 Bengals prove we could use Whitworth and he is greatly missed. I'm glad most fans see the Rams had no problem offering Whitworth a long contract and that the Rams are actually playing good ball. It shows most fans appreciate good players like Whitworth.

[redwood]

(10-27-2017, 09:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'll always believe the Bengals tried to play hardball with Whit and it blew up in their face.  I forget the exact comment ? by Marvin maybe ? either right before or in very early free agency, something a out Whit being dinged up perhaps ? They didn't think anybody would want him and they could have their way.

Sad ! to do a damn near Bengal Legend that way but that's how MB rolls, $$$$$$$$ is first priority.

Whit was damn good but getting older and.....big $ at 3 years? I never expected any team pays that. I feared Zeitler MIGHT get $ above what a good OG usually gets.. so.. I expected he was a goner. Wel.. Whit and Zietler DID get deals.   Probably a reach. I expected Whit stays but we HAD invested a rd 1 and a rd 2 in OT so? So....they OUGHT to be good? Right?

When Ced,Fisher, Bodine ALL underachieve....WHY?  We need to understand that. Did we botch the scout + draft part or the coaching part?

[grampahol]

I'm still contending that they're all professional fall guys. The team by design is supposed to lose out to teams with a much bigger fan base.
Anyone who still believes the Brown family are accidental billionaires isn't paying attention. You can't accidentally become a billionaire unless there's meticulous planning. 
We all should be so accidentally stupid to make that kind of money. 

[Circleville Guy]

Once again, tagging Whit was the correct move. They really couldn't sign Z to that much money. They shouldn't have paid the 2 CBs. They always waste money on players that they shouldn't. What would it look like if the had kept the OLine and let the CBs walk?

[Beaker]

(10-29-2017, 07:47 AM)kevin Wrote: First, let me replace your word BENGALS with my words MIKE BROWN.   You say assertions that Mike Brown is cheap is an old narrative that has been proven false over and over again repeatedly.   HOW SO BEAKER ???  How has Mike Brown proven over and over again that he is not cheap ?   I'm interested in how you back up your statement.  Mike Browns reputation of being one of the cheapest NFL owners has been well earned by Mike Brown over many decades.  No GM, No Scouts, Only Northern NFL Team with No Indoor Practice Facility.  Ex Bengals from Bob Trumpy to Collinsworth have talked of Mike Browns cheapness as has ESPN and most of NFL.   You Beaker say it's not true.  How so Beaker ?  How has Mike Brown proven these assertions of cheapness false as you say ?   I say it's the opposite Beaker and over and over repeatedly the assertions of Mike Browns cheapness are proven TRUE.   All you have to do is look at the Bengals when Paul Brown died. Mike Brown took over a team his dad had just had in 2 Super Bowls.  Mike Brown immediately went cheap and turned a Super Bowl team into the worst team in the NFL.  They became called THE BUNGLES. The joke of the NFL.  27 years as owner and Mike Brown holds this record of no play-off wins that no other owner would want.  This losing record comes from just being the cheapest owner in the NFL, and the assertions of his cheapness are proven TRUE. 

Now Mr Beaker, you say due to Whitworths age that a one year contract was perfectly acceptable.  Well, not to Mr Whitworth who saw it as a slap in the face.  Not by other NFL teams besides Rams who lined up to offer Whitworth a longer contract.  I say you are wrong on this also Beaker, because Whitworth is one of the best Bengals ever and deserved treated better....and because we still needed him on this team as the lousy 2017 O Line is proving.   You can toe the Mike Brown Corporate Line all you want Beaker, as if you are a part owner or in the Brown Family Will, but the one year contract was an insult.  Mike Brown and You Beaker, saying Whitworth too old and get rid of him.  Well, The Rams were happy to give Whitworth a long contract, Beaker.   Whitworth liked that The Rams showed they wanted him after Mike Brown didn't.  Whit also liked that the Rams don't play the Bengals for years, and gives him a lot of distance between him and Mike Brown. ....Also Beaker, I will use this as more proof that the assertions of Mike Browns cheapness are correct.   So the best Bengals Left Tackle ever besides Munoz and you agree with the Mike Brown insult of a one year contract, Beaker.  Well, other NFL teams including the Rams quickly offered him a long contract, again proving Mike Browns cheap. 

You say Zeitler too expensive.  Well, Mike Brown said Max Montoya, Steinbach and Zeitler too expensive.   In fact, in all cases, Mike Brown said, " Why should I pay big money to an offensive guard ".....Looking at our centers, I would say he refuses to pay centers as well.   How much are guards and centers worth to Mike Brown or you Beaker ?   We had a an O Line that took us to 2 Super Bowls before Paul Brown died and Mike took over.   I question why pay Chad or AJ if you have no pass blocking time.  Why Have running backs if you have no run blocking.  Why pay so much to quarterbacks from Boomer to Klingler up to Carson and Dalton if you can't protect the QB and they get hit on every play, causing plays blown up, causing losses, causing injuries due to no blocking.   HOW MUCH IS Mike Brown willing to pay centers and guards in the NFL.  Considering 27 years of no play-off wins, Mike Brown isn't willing to pay for a Super Bowl offensive line and over and over he has said so when getting rid of Montoya, Steinbach, Zeitler.    That Mike Brown refuses to pay guards and centers and brags about it is proof the assertions of his cheapness are TRUE.


Now some have said Coach Lewis should have franchise tagged Whitworth.   WRONG.  That is Mike Browns department.  Mike Brown does the Franchise Tagging on this team.  Here again it's a slap in the face. A one year tag contract when other teams are willing to offer Whitworth a longer contract. ....One still says he see's Coach Lewis as 90 % of the problem.  Look, Mike Brown was stinking up Cincinnati 12 years before Coach Lewis came here.  Cincinnati was THE BUNGLES 12 years before Coach Lewis.  I see it as just A FACT that MIKE BROWN is 100 % the problem of the 27 tears of Mike Brown.  Players and coaches have came and gone, but Mike Brown is the constant.  Now Beaker, you can toe the Mike Brown line all you want, but you must explain in great detail how Mike Brown has proven his critics wrong and that he is not cheap.  Please explain yourself.   I say the 27 years of futility of Mike Brown and his cheapness and this team laughed at and called BUNGLES and no play-off wins in 27 years proves the assertions of cheapness by most in the NFL are correct.  I also say Bengal fans deserved better over these 27 years and Mike Brown went cheap on the fans.  To that, there is no justification or redemption, Beaker.  I refuse to toe the Mike Brown Corporate line on going cheap on the fans.  

So Beaker, I ask for an itemized list of how Mike Brown proved the assertions of his cheapness inaccurate.  I look at Mike Brown over the 27 years and see the assertions of his cheapness are more than proven in losing and the term BUNGLES and I lay the name BUNGLES on Mike Brown, because that name didn't exist under Paul Brown. 

I am glad to see most on here felt Whitworth was not treated right by Mike Brown and that the 2017 Bengals prove we could use Whitworth and he is greatly missed.   I'm glad most fans see the Rams had no problem offering Whitworth a long contract and that the Rams are actually playing good ball.  It shows most fans appreciate good players like Whitworth.

It has been pointed out many times in this forum how the Bengals have re-signed players to lucrative contracts on par with other teams and their value in the NFL. If you want an itemized list, use the search feature. But AJ Green, Dalton, Dre K, and Vontaze are all resigned with good contracts...for a few examples. As for a practice facitlity, I think a team that plays outdoors should practice outdoors. If they have a home game and it snows, they don't get to go indoors. 

Its very easy for fans to spend the money when it isn't theirs. But the Bengals have one of the more talented rosters in the NFL....and are not in salary cap hell either. That is an indication that their way is not completely wrong. The 2 OTs have not proven to be good picks, but in general, the Bengals do a good job picking talent. I think the struggles lie more with coaching than anything else. I think ML has run his course. He cannot get them to the next level. So to me, a coaching change is the better option than throwing stupid money at old players or over priced players. I think there are coaches who could take this roster to the next level with some tweaks. But the Bengals are not cheap. 

[Derrick]

(10-29-2017, 08:52 PM)Beaker Wrote: It has been pointed out many times in this forum how the Bengals have re-signed players to lucrative contracts on par with other teams and their value in the NFL. If you want an itemized list, use the search feature. But AJ Green, Dalton, Dre K, and Vontaze are all resigned with good contracts...for a few examples. As for a practice facitlity, I think a team that plays outdoors should practice outdoors. If they have a home game and it snows, they don't get to go indoors. 

Its very easy for fans to spend the money when it isn't theirs. But the Bengals have one of the more talented rosters in the NFL....and are not in salary cap hell either. That is an indication that their way is not completely wrong. The 2 OTs have not proven to be good picks, but in general, the Bengals do a good job picking talent. I think the struggles lie more with coaching than anything else. I think ML has run his course. He cannot get them to the next level. So to me, a coaching change is the better option than throwing stupid money at old players or over priced players. I think there are coaches who could take this roster to the next level with some tweaks. But the Bengals are not cheap. 

Don't forget Bovine at Center. And Alexander too.

[Rattler]

Paulie has photos of Mikey boy blowing a llama...