After game thoughts

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2017, 11:41 AM)Au165 Wrote:  
If you mean what happened to Dalton, I think he is just shell shocked now. He wants to get rid of the ball as quick as possible to limit the hits when he does get away from pressure. The truth is I think Dalton is what he is now. A young guy can come in and keep his eyes down field because he gets whacked and jumps back up. At 30 Dalton isn't going to pop up like he used too. 
I have been a big Dalton supporter, but at this point I think a new coach needs to come in with a new QB and start fresh. 

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.  I agree with you, I have said before that he is shell shocked.

I think a new coach and some help up front makes him better.  Having said that, I'm not opposed to moving on either.  Problem is, who would it be?  I'm not a big fan of any of them in this year's draft.

[Au165]

(10-30-2017, 11:52 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, that's what I was referring to.  I agree with you, I have said before that he is shell shocked.

I think a new coach and some help up front makes him better.  Having said that, I'm not opposed to moving on either.  Problem is, who would it be?  I'm not a big fan of any of them in this year's draft.

I wouldn't mind giving him one year with a new coach and better line, but I don't think he will get better he will just be in a better situation. As to the who? tough to say still a lot to be learned. Guys tend to emerge down the back stretch of the year.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-30-2017, 04:43 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Im glad they won but I didn't see anything I wanted to see this game except the coaching staff is still clueless. I know Marvin Lewis by now and this team. Let's just go back 1 year. Where RT Cedric Ohbugi was sent out there till the wheels fell off then they decided to do some other stuff with the line and it magically got better and they won a few more games. Cody core didn't get to play till we were out of it. Now this year I'm seeing the same frustrating stuff. I know for sure TJ Johnson would even be a upgrade over Russell Bodine but you're to stupid to put him at center , as for the tackles ,if the owner and coach was in it to win it,you'd go get a offensive tackle just like you would if one got hurt and you had too. Nope you'll keep putting them out there till the wheels come off, no biggie. I'm not a Dalton lover but I can't say anything about Dalton today because he really did get no time back there,and he actually stood in there for one and threw a td and didn't bail like usual.

As for our running back situation. Who's game plan is it to give Hill the start, let him have the first drive then pull him till the second half pretty much. I don't think I've ever seen a starter used like that lol it's straight goofy,it has to be Marvins football genius game plan. Also as I watched the 1988 Bengals on YouTube the other day I see that there was always two backs in the backfield and one was always blocking. With our offense now there is never a blocker along with this bad o line.

With the receivers ,I'm glad they are using Malone atleast! He's got height and speed for the deep ball. But I'm afraid they will just pull him when core and Boyd are healthy. As for Ross I think he's just in Marvins dog house ,Merv is lying about him not being in the game plan he had a couple snaps ,one he was faked too,and another Dalton was rushed and it was a hard throw to the sideline,Ross came out for the game immediately.  Marvin is a moron and needs to go,he refuses to use 1st rounders and he is way to hard on them. Why even draft the guy if you didn't trust him. Oh that's right you never plan on using first rounders so why even get excited for them anymore? I would not be surprised if they IR ross this week and just say he's injured ,when he's not just so they don't have to keep explaining why they don't want him to play.

Jordan Evans I wish would get more playing time. Other then that I like the defense ,except if we have to face a beast run team like coming up. Vontaze is the only enforcer in the run game.

My conclusion ,I'm scared of Jacksonville lol I have little faith the coaching staff gets things together by next Sunday when they havnt all season.they only make changes when we are out of it,it seems then suddenly they do right . Mind blowing. If they can somehow blow my mind and beat Jacksonville, I'll be more optimistic on the playoffs but still doubtful we would go far. This team is just so frustrating ,I'm thinking about just picking up a second team in the eagles or just start involving myself in other sports. I see a lot of fans are just mind blown with the thinking of this coaching staff. Hopefully it ends after this year.

1. Marvin (maybe with imput from Mike?) is too loyal to vets. That's why Bodine will stay in when he's clearly terrible. That's why Hill gets the start for a series, which I also think is ********. 

2. I also agree that Ross is in Marvin's doghouse. Who knows why. Just get the guy some snaps and let him run go routes if he's struggling with the playbook. The kid was the 9th overall pick ffs...you have to get him going and get his feet wet for next year at the very least. 

3. Jax is going to run it down our throats. I see 30+ carries. They're stout up front and Fournette is a beast. They've blown out both the Steelers and Ravens. Embarrassed them. Ben threw 5 picks. 

(10-30-2017, 06:53 AM)WiregrassBenGal Wrote: Isn't that one of the basic tenet, ironclad rules of football, to PROTECT YOUR QUARTERBACK?

It's football 101 and some don't seem to get that. Yes Dalton looks out of sorts. The line is affecting him. (1) pressure alone messes with timing, (2) we're having to change the damn offense just to alleviate some pressure, (3) even then, there's still major pressure, and (4) as Romo pointed out, our receivers don't have time to finish routes (get open). Dalton is running away from pressure before guys can get open. Then when he runs (usually to the right so he can set his feet), it shifts all the coverage that way and receivers have to break off their routes and freelance, which we suck at.

People read this stuff and think "exuses". It's real life. This is the worst line I've ever seen. That Dalton was able to put up solid numbers yesterday proves what kind of QB he is, IMO. 

(10-30-2017, 10:19 AM)Au165 Wrote: Two things, 1. he has been doing this for two years now and 2. it was good enough when he ran about 15 yards around the end the one time he actually did decide to run. I'm not saying take unecessary risks, but your first reaction after escaping has to be to look down field and if not there take off, it can't be okay I escaped now lets throw it into the stands.

He's been doing it for 2 years? So in other words, since his thumb injury. Maybe he's been told to take fewer risks? Makes sense, given when he started running less. His first 5 years, he averaged 3.5 rush attempts per game. Over the last 2 seasons, he's averaging 2.9...so he is taking off less than he ever has.

I don't think Dalton is a chicken shit. He's gotten up and come back from way too many beatings for me to believe that. Dude's got resolve. He seems to follow coach's orders to the letter from what I've seen. How much he throws it away has always been directly linked to what the coaches want. In 2011, they wanted him throwing it away and playing it safe because he was a rookie.

In 2012 and 2013, they wanted a gun slinger mentality. He tried to make things happen rather than throwing it away. When Hue came in, it seemed like a perfect balance. Dalton took risks and pushed it downfield, but also knew when to fold. 

Over the last 2 seasons, Dalton is back to throwing it away often. I hate to keep going back to o-line, but...it's probably thanks to the o-line. If he's instantly pressured and no one is open (no time to run routes), do we really want Dalton trying to force something to a WR who probably isn't even looking for the ball yet? These are things no one seems to think about.

(10-30-2017, 11:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Brady is one of the best ever at climbing a pocket and side stepping pressure inside of it.

What pocket? Our worst lineman is probably Bodine. Our guard play is weak to say the least. When the pressure starts from the middle, there is no pocket to manipulate. Same when there's a free blitzer.

[masterpanthera_t]

(10-30-2017, 11:15 AM)Wyche Wrote: You should be scared of Jacksonville.  They will most likely pound it down our throats like Shitsburgh did.  If you're planning on getting another team, I'd just go ahead and do it.  With the Browns in control, you'll likely never see a champion in the Queen City.  Some of us were fortunate to at least see a couple Super Bowls.....it's why we're hooked, lol.  If you didn't watch through the 90s, there's really no reason to put yourself through it.  The last two weeks, I have watched the races, and flipped back here and there to see what they were up to.  This week, the race started at 3:00, so I watched into the third quarter all the way through.  This o line is an EMBARRASSMENT.  It's hard to say anything about the RBs, the WRs not getting separation, or the QB.  These pukes up front can't even hold a block long enough to let a play develop.

Hey WW, what would you suggest to suckers like me who became fans in the early 90s, never saw a playoff win, but experienced year after year of disappointing drafts, personnel decisions and being a laughingstock thinking we'll turn it around "soon". We got suckered into being Bengal fans before we knew anything about MB, and now even though I always root for other underdog teams (like the Barry Sanders Lions, the Bledsoe Patriots, etc.), I have unfortunately come to consider the Bengals as my primary team. I get to live vicariously through the Patriots seeing how that once downtrodden franchise has reached unbelievable heights after an ownership change. I know most on this board don't like the Pats, but honestly they have been providing a lot of joy over the years to me by providing the obstacle that the teams in our division we all don't like can never get past. 

In some ways, I am not even sure I want a least deserving guy like MB to win a super bowl managing things "his" way. Surely if he owned a different team I would have to root against that team solely for that reason, but, unfortunately he owns the team that I root for. End rant.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2017, 12:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: I wouldn't mind giving him one year with a new coach and better line, but I don't think he will get better he will just be in a better situation. As to the who? tough to say still a lot to be learned. Guys tend to emerge down the back stretch of the year.

See, I think he could.  He was steadily getting better all the way up until about halfway through last year.  He is doing a bit better already under Lazor.  Give him confidence in his line, and he is a pretty solid option at QB.  Right now, he has ZERO confidence, and rightly so.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2017, 12:52 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Hey WW, what would you suggest to suckers like me who became fans in the early 90s, never saw a playoff win, but experienced year after year of disappointing drafts, personnel decisions and being a laughingstock thinking we'll turn it around "soon". We got suckered into being Bengal fans before we knew anything about MB, and now even though I always root for other underdog teams (like the Barry Sanders Lions, the Bledsoe Patriots, etc.), I have unfortunately come to consider the Bengals as my primary team. I get to live vicariously through the Patriots seeing how that once downtrodden franchise has reached unbelievable heights after an ownership change. I know most on this board don't like the Pats, but honestly they have been providing a lot of joy over the years to me by providing the obstacle that the teams in our division we all don't like can never get past. 

In some ways, I am not even sure I want a least deserving guy like MB to win a super bowl managing things "his" way. Surely if he owned a different team I would have to root against that team solely for that reason, but, unfortunately he owns the team that I root for. End rant.

You poor, poor soul.  

No man, I get it.  I like a good underdog too.  I mean, I cheered for the Saints, the Bucs, and yes....the Patsies.  I remember when they sucked too.

Having said that, growing up in the late 70s and into the 80s....I just KNEW there was no way in hell the "aints" or the "Yuccaneers" would EVER win a Super Bowl before my Bengals.  Kinda missed that one!

.....but hey, you DID make it through the 90's :andy:

[jj22]

Who's responsibility is it to recognize free rushers. Dalton is getting lit up by unblocked rushers coming in full speed. I've never seen anything like it happen so much. Brady can step up, but Dalton is getting hit by people not even being blocked. Brady can't even take that.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-30-2017, 11:24 AM)thillan Wrote: I have no doubt in my mind that if you flipped Dalton for Brady, we would be much better immediately. He's incredible. But again, it's not the most fair comparison.

Exactly. It sounds like you are agreeing with me that Rodgers and Wilson would still experience success with this line. 

Russell Wilson also has a really bad OL. Have you seen Seattle's run game? It's practically nonexistent.
However, Wilson is able to still put up yards, TDs, and most importantly wins (5-2 record).
For anyone who didn't consider Wilson an elite QB prior to this year, hopefully they see it now with how well he's played with that terrible OL.

Maybe the Bengals need a QB who can scramble to extend plays given this OL.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2017, 02:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Russell Wilson also has a really bad OL. Have you seen Seattle's run game? It's practically nonexistent.
However, Wilson is able to still put up yards, TDs, and most importantly wins (5-2 record).
For anyone who didn't consider Wilson an elite QB prior to this year, hopefully they see it now with how well he's played with that terrible OL.

Maybe the Bengals need a QB who can scramble to extend plays given this OL.

That's exactly what I have been saying.  You either get a guy like Wilson or Rodgers (far and few between), or you build a good line.  One is easier to do than the other.......

With Wilson, you have to respect his running ability.  This is often done with a "spy", which also takes a defender out of the pass coverage.  He can also move all over the place and allow plays to develop.  He's hard to defend.  That said, I don't think that line is as bad as this one.  Look at the vines from yesterday.  D linemen were in the backfield almost instantly.  It didn't matter if it was a run or a pass.  These guys are pathetic.

[McC]

(10-30-2017, 11:52 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, that's what I was referring to.  I agree with you, I have said before that he is shell shocked.

I think a new coach and some help up front makes him better.  Having said that, I'm not opposed to moving on either.  Problem is, who would it be?  I'm not a big fan of any of them in this year's draft.

Personally, I don't think Marvin deserves another QB to ruin.  And I don't for a second think Marvin is going anywhere unless he wants to.  Marvin checked out after the '15 season and his heart isn't even in it any more but he can't walk away from the big money.  I don't even think Marv believes he has a chance to win a SB.  I don't think anyone on the team believes it.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-30-2017, 02:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Russell Wilson also has a really bad OL. Have you seen Seattle's run game? It's practically nonexistent.
However, Wilson is able to still put up yards, TDs, and most importantly wins (5-2 record).
For anyone who didn't consider Wilson an elite QB prior to this year, hopefully they see it now with how well he's played with that terrible OL.

Maybe the Bengals need a QB who can scramble to extend plays given this OL.

Well in fairness, the Seahawks are 21st in rushing (97.6 yards per game) while the Bengals are 30th (a pathetic 78.4 yards per game). Wilson has also been sacked less (16 times) than Dalton (22 times) and I know the pressures are far worse here. But Wilson can run and scramble around better. If you want to grab a guy that can run around, fine...but I think it's silly to pick your QB based on your o-line sucking. 

Why not just build the o-line like we're supposed to?

[Hoofhearted]

(10-30-2017, 02:50 PM)McC Wrote: Personally, I don't think Marvin deserves another QB to ruin.  And I don't for a second think Marvin is going anywhere unless he wants to.  Marvin checked out after the '15 season and his heart isn't even in it any more but he can't walk away from the big money.  I don't even think Marv believes he has a chance to win a SB.  I don't think anyone on the team believes it.

I will officially renounce my fandom if ML isn't gone after this year. I mean seriously, even the general mass is starting to be apathetic judging by the attendance numbers.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2017, 03:10 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I will officially renounce my fandom if ML isn't gone after this year. I mean seriously, even the general mass is starting to be apathetic judging by the attendance numbers.

.....and Piano Man. :paul:

[McC]

(10-30-2017, 03:10 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I will officially renounce my fandom if ML isn't gone after this year. I mean seriously, even the general mass is starting to be apathetic judging by the attendance numbers.

Mike kept going with the Mike Way when there were fifty people in the stands and forty nine of them had bags on their heads. 

[Hoofhearted]

(10-30-2017, 03:14 PM)McC Wrote: Mike kept going with the Mike Way when there were fifty people in the stands and forty nine of them had bags on their heads. 

 


It's a damn if you do and damn if you don't type thing, eh?

If you root them on thru all this, you're just enabling this behavior.

If you don't, MB will be a bic and threaten to move the team.

Ugh.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-30-2017, 03:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well in fairness, the Seahawks are 21st in rushing (97.6 yards per game) while the Bengals are 30th (a pathetic 78.4 yards per game). Wilson has also been sacked less (16 times) than Dalton (22 times) and I know the pressures are far worse here. But Wilson can run and scramble around better. If you want to grab a guy that can run around, fine...but I think it's silly to pick your QB based on your o-line sucking. 

Why not just build the o-line like we're supposed to?

Because clearly the Bengals suck at doing that, and it might be easier/faster to find a QB that can scramble.

[Daddy-O]

(10-30-2017, 11:16 AM)thillan Wrote: This team's coaching is so ridiculous, it's unbelievable.

- For some reason, week after week, Hill starts the first series and gets 1-2 carries, then doesn't play again until he starts the second half. What POSSIBLE explanation could there be for this? Marvin: MIXON GETS A CHANCE TO LEARN HURDURRR. Any wise franchise would trade this guy.

- WJIII has played lockdown defense.. and yet, AGAIN, we don't start him. I'm amazed that Hilton didn't torch Pacman, because the ONLY CB we have that can keep up with him is WJIII. If the Colts line wasn't so bad, I don't know what would've happened to us.

This win looked so pathetic. Not happy at all with it. The sad part is, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we pick up only one O-lineman this offseason, and re-sign Marvin for another 2 years of mediocrity.

If we resign Marvin and Paul Alexander I'm out.

[Joelist]

The mythical "scrambling QB" would just wind up on IR with our line. I've seen the Seahags play and while their line is not great they at least do manage to engage the rushers. Wilson is not dealing with rushers flying in completely unblocked on almost every play.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2017, 03:45 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: If we resign Marvin and Paul Alexander I'm out.

Count me out as well.  

[bengalsturntup5532]

I'm pleasantly surprised I didn't get called a dumb was and all kinds of smart remarks like usual on here lol. Thanks for the good read guys. I'm glad I'm not alone also.